Pet Shop Boys Album Discussions

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Havoc, Oct 25, 2014.

  1. Dukes Travels

    Dukes Travels Forum Resident

    krock2009 likes this.
  2. krock2009

    krock2009 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Dukes Travels likes this.
  3. Scottb

    Scottb Senior Member

    Location:
    Nanuet, NY, USA
    The sheer songwriting talent that Neil and Chris have blows away DM, Erasure and OMD combined. You can take almost any PSB song and sit down at an acoustic piano or guitar and play them and they sounded great. I can't say that about most other pop synth acts.
     
    stevepafford and c-eling like this.
  4. Scottb

    Scottb Senior Member

    Location:
    Nanuet, NY, USA
  5. Dukes Travels

    Dukes Travels Forum Resident

    True. I think they are one of the greatest songwriting teams of any point in history. They are likely not given the credit they deserve, because of the fact they are a pop act who completely use electronics.
    "what? an electronic group cant possibly write anything as good as John Lennon...or Kurt Cobain!, its all done for them!"
     
    stevepafford likes this.
  6. krock2009

    krock2009 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Honestly, Depeche Mode are in a class of their own. Every album they have released since Violator has had a hit single of some sort. Not to mention they continue to sell out arenas.
     
    subzro and Dukes Travels like this.
  7. Dukes Travels

    Dukes Travels Forum Resident

    I think they probably came to a point where they realised they are not going to be as big in America. I'm a UK expat and have seen them every time they have played around the West Coast and I'm so glad they are not as big as Depeche Mode. I get to see them play at small theaters, with a crowd of REALLY PASSIONATE fans and its an absolute blast.
     
    krock2009 likes this.
  8. krock2009

    krock2009 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    The flashy (but well done) music videos didn't help their cause to be taken seriously either.

    One of the biggest mistakes that EMI made was remixing "HCYETBTS" for US radio and video. The album version is vastly superior, and would have been a major hit.
     
  9. krock2009

    krock2009 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    They probably realized it when "Cowboy" flopped on both sides of the pond. Not touring for "I Say I Say I Say", was a mistake as well.
     
  10. Scottb

    Scottb Senior Member

    Location:
    Nanuet, NY, USA
    Agreed 100% and I have friends of mine that just dismiss them as a synth pop act and don't understand how strong there song writing is. Behind all the electronics are very strong melodies. It's a shame that they don't get the proper songwriting credit they deserve. I respect that some people don't care for their method of delivery but there is no denying their great strength as songwriters with very catchy melodies.
     
    Dukes Travels likes this.
  11. Dukes Travels

    Dukes Travels Forum Resident

    I think it took them a while to get fully going, but when they did, they also produced some masterful stuff.
    Behind the Wheel
    Never Let Me Down Again
    World in My Eyes
    Personal Jesus
    Etc.
    I think they were/are marred by Martin Gores insistence in singing some of the material. His voice is aweful.
     
  12. Scottb

    Scottb Senior Member

    Location:
    Nanuet, NY, USA
    Yes I agree that after 1988 their popularity in the US dropped. It's do bad as their talent is so rare. I'm still waiting for an PSB 'Unplugged show'!!
     
  13. Dukes Travels

    Dukes Travels Forum Resident

    Sorry I was referring to PSB. I didnt make that clear.
    I think same could be applied to Erasure though. But I think they knew way sooner that it wasn't going to happen and they should accept what fanbase they have.
     
  14. ippudo

    ippudo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Not a fan of "Bilingual" due to its lack of memorable tunes, but as others have said, the opening duo of "Discoteca"/"Single-Bilingual" is a brilliant achievement, possibly my favourite among their 90's output.

    On the subject of who was influenced by PSB, one of the few obvious if little known acts is Scottish singer-songwriter Nicholas Currie aka Momus, who channelled PSB on some of his more electronically inclined (and usually badly produced) albums, most notably on 1989's "Don't Stop The Night". Steven Wilson, who covered one of its tracks, "The Guitar Lesson", once told me he would have loved to produce the whole thing.

     
  15. boyjohn

    boyjohn Senior Member

    I think the 2002 tour is about as close to that as we are going to get. Here is "Being Boring" on Later With Jools Hooland with a backing band.

     
    stevepafford likes this.
  16. jsayers

    jsayers Just Drifting....

    Location:
    Horse Shoe, NC
    Thanks for playing! :wave:
     
  17. Dukes Travels

    Dukes Travels Forum Resident

    Shame. Watching that tells me it could be done properly. But whoever did the sound leveling on this needs fired. His vocals are the lowest in the mix.
     
  18. Surly

    Surly Bon Viv-oh-no-he-didn't

    Location:
    Sugar Land, TX
    Sacrilege! I love when Martin sings. "A Question Of Lust" and "One Caress" are both perfect as is and would not have benefited from Gahan's voice.

    As for Bilingual - once again, I am late to the thread and everyone has pretty much said what I was going to say about how great the first two songs are and the way they mix together. "Before" was not the best choice for a single. I like the "Red Letter" and "Se a vida..." singles quite a bit but as an album overall, this is where they became a singles band for me, and stylistically, it just wasn't what I really wanted from them. It was also out of step with what was going on in regards to the pop charts of the day, so it's no surprise that the album didn't connect at radio/MTV in America.
     
  19. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic

    Well, I think Bilingual is ace, so there.

    The opening two tracks, as has already been said, are a career highlight, and to be honest from the first time I heard them in my first year at university, when I'd just moved to London and was having my mind blown by adult life, this became a favourite album.

    "Metamorphosis" has come in for some stick but the groove it sets up with the horns gets my toes tapping every time. "Electricity", though, I could do without. Never have liked that much.

    I didn't like "Before" much initially but it's grown on me over the years in its own subtle little way and is now one of my favourite PSB tracks. Everything else I enjoy to varying degrees (Se a Vida E is an absolute joy to me, but the Survivors is a tiny bit schmaltzy to my ears, and Saturday Night Forever is a slightly weak ending but To Step Aside is fantastic.)

    I suppose it was the first new album that came out when I was a fan, and my life changes make it very nostalgically relevant, but I think it's better than people give credit for. A very different album to "Very" but just as rewarding.
     
    JeffMo and morgan1098 like this.
  20. stevepafford

    stevepafford Well-Known Member

    SNF has to be one of my least favourite tracks of theirs. The chorus is so so lazy and not sung particularly well.

    Before is one of Chris Lowe's favourite ever PSB song, but then what the **** does he know? I think it's too smooth and pretty poor.

    • I think the chanting is actually infant school children IIRC.
    Is there one single from Bilingual that is representative of the album? I'm not sure.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2014
  21. brokenhanger

    brokenhanger Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Jersey City, NJ
    So we're skipping 'Alternative' and 'Disco 2'? Shame, I was really looking forward to reading the comments on the latter...

    Anyways, 'Bilingual'. I'm glad to see so many people defending it here, I feel like it gets a bit of a bum rap for being not as good as the first five albums. Because it's not, however it's still a fabulous album. There are two issues with it: the songs just aren't as good and, even more importantly I think, the sequencing is super weird. Neil mentions that in the liner notes to the Further listening set, commenting that there isn't a strong melody to be found until track five, almost halfway through the album, which he thinks put people off of it. They did get the opening combo of "Discoteca" and "Single" right, but after that it's a crazy mess of a roller coaster ride.

    I will say that two of my absolute least favorite PSB singles are here, "Se a vida e" and "A red letter day". There were much, much better choices to be found on the album - "To step aside", "Up against it", "Saturday night forever" to name a few - and both of those are just not up to par with their singles discography as far as I'm concerned. However, "Before" is a totally underrated gem - another one I'd love to see revived for a tour some day...or I guess introduced as I don't think they've ever done it - and "Single" is solid, even if "Discoteca" would have totally made the better a-side.

    I really like both "Metamorphosis" and especially "Electricity" - they're completely outside of the Boys' comfort zone but I think they both totally work. Back to the sequencing issue, though, they should have been deep cuts on side 2 rather than tracks 3 and 4 on the album, both coming before either of the singles released ahead of the album. I've never really been able to put together a sequence for the album that I think works best, but the released one sure isn't it.

    Glad to see mention of "It always comes as a surprise". It's gorgeous and yet another career high point that gets glossed over because of the general shoulder-shrug feeling directed as its parent album.

    Even though it's the weakest PSB album up to that point, even today I find it one of my most listened to. I find it completely fascinating, and every time I listen to it I have a hope that the secret to making it a Top Tier PSB album will reveal itself. As far as personal preference, I do actually prefer it to 'Introspective' so far and on the right day to 'Very' as well.

    The b-sides are a very mixed bag. If some of the album tracks weren't up to snuff than most of the cast-offs weren't either. That said, there are some great tracks hidden away on the singles. My favorite of the bunch is the totally OTT "Delusions of grandeur", which even out-bombasts "Shameless" even if the song isn't as good. Another one I'd love to see on tour, especially paired with "Shameless", it would be stunning. I'm also a huge fan of "The boy who couldn't keep his clothes on", even if it is totally tacky. "How I learned to hate rock-n-roll" and "The calm before the storm" are nice, "Betrayed" is fine if nothing special, but the two "Before" b-sides "The truck driver and his mate" and "Hit and miss" are plodding and pounding and I've never been a fan.

    Post-album single "Somewhere" is even more outrageous than "Go West" and was a welcome surprise on the 'Electric' tour. Both of its b-sides are top notch, the "Music for boys"-esque "Disco potential" and the absolutely lovely "The view from your balcony".

    Remix-wise, things start out dire - a zillion Tenaglia remixes of "Before"? NO THANKS - but get really interesting around the "Single" single. Trouser Enthusiasts are one of my favorite remixers and they get their hands all over "Discoteca" (my favorite of the trio and one of my Top 5 PSB remixes), "A red letter day" (both Boys have commented that the Autoerotic Decapitation remix is one of their favorites, though it was curiously left off the 'Mix' disc) and "Somewhere", though "Somewhere" doesn't get a fantastical non-sequitur remix title. In fact, as far as post-'Discography' remix packages go, I'd say the set delivered for "Single" is one of the best.

    In 'Catalog' they mention that this was the first era that the sleeves were designed with the CD being the main format, and they do some fun things with the single sleeves. "Before" is a little dull in its commercial form, however the spot-varnish on "Se a vida e" is subtle but fun, they repeat the sandblast trick from the album for "Single", and I love the mini-sleeve idea on "Somewhere". The most curious of all PSB sleeves is the promo 'Before' sleeves - if you don't know them, look them up though they're definitely NSFW. The joke is very PSB, but the execution is unexpected for them. I managed to track down a red sleeve a few years back though it was a little beat up around the edges; I'm always on the look out for nicer copies because they're a great anomaly in the PSB sleeve collection. (Unfortunately the actual music contained is more Tenaglia remixes, ugh.)

    So overall not an entirely successful era for the Boys but one that I feel is rather underrated. It's also overall much better than the two albums that follow, but we'll get to that.

    Album ranking:
    Actually
    Please
    Behaviour
    Bilingual
    Very
    Introspective

    with 2-5 being very, very close to each other.
     
    Maurice, JeffMo, jamesc and 3 others like this.
  22. morgan1098

    morgan1098 Forum Resident

    This. I know Bilingual isn't the best PSB album, but for the past couple of years it has been the one I listen to the most. The fact that it's so hard to pin down a distinct style for this album is part of the appeal. I can listen to it and still find things that surprise me and things that make me say, "What were they thinking?" It's a challenging album but it makes me feel more engaged as a listener.

    Those naughty "Before" promos are legendary. If I remember correctly from the Further Listening notes, it was actually Atlantic Records' decision to use those images, not PSB's. I'm sure they had to approve it though. More ambiguity out the window. ;)
     
  23. Scottb

    Scottb Senior Member

    Location:
    Nanuet, NY, USA
    yes I have to agree that the video remix is not great at all and it took what I think is a great song and just made it silly.
     
  24. Scottb

    Scottb Senior Member

    Location:
    Nanuet, NY, USA
    Great performance. Would have loved to see a whole concert with that backing band and PSB.
     
  25. Havoc

    Havoc Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Poland
    Brandon Flowers is just a product of 80's new-wave, post-punk....whatever the kids are calling it these days. Just as I was as a drummer who modeled himself after Boris Williams with a little Mel Gaynor then Derek Forbes, Simon Gallup and Tony Butler when I had to learn bass. I didn't really write songs so I had the luxury of just borrowing specifically from styles of playing whereas Brandon took it all in and I can see PSB being a part of that. Maybe Lady Gaga was influenced by them? I couldn't pick out a Lady Gaga song even if you put headphones on me and told me you were playing a Lady Gaga song for me but I did see her performing with them so maybe she counts them as an influence. Since they are associated with the gay culture I can see many artists praising them for a whole host of reasons, some of them musical and some of them just for being "brave" enough to come out and embrace that part of our culture. Maybe some of the flamboyance or large production characteristics of their live performances are influential? I dunno, when I've seen them live it just doesn't really occur to me and they don't go out of their way to promote that part of themselves so I can't say for sure. All I know is that they were/are great and they had perfect timing when they came on the scene but I'd say they benefitted more from earlier electronic based musicians rather than them really blazing any trails for a significant list of others. there's always the possibility I'm wrong though and just missed those artists who do cite them as influences.

    I'm with you with respect to "Yes" being a sort of second spark for them though. Something clicked for them and the last few albums have been very vibrant and extremely interesting to listen to.....not to mention just fun which is what pop music should be.
     
    Surly likes this.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine