Pet shop boys reissues

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by fozl1986, Feb 7, 2015.

  1. Scottb

    Scottb Well-Known Member

    Nanuet, NY, USA
    I'll have to pull mine out as it's been a while since I played it. I know for the US version that Bob Ludwig mastered it which can be a good or bad thing.
  2. Limopard

    Limopard Forum Resident

    Leipzig, Germany
    Very was indeed exceptionally loud for a 1993 release - a year before Oasis set the bar higher (or rather lower). Today an average DR of 9 would be called decent.
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  3. Scottb

    Scottb Well-Known Member

    Nanuet, NY, USA
    I played it and you're right it is too loud. For a 1993 CD it's definitely way too loud.
  4. chrrrd

    chrrrd Member

    dresden, de
    Thanks @portlandjulian for the Introspective review. Really look forward to having some time to listen to these reissues in detail soon.

    Similar to Fundamental, Nightlife and Release I think I enjoy the 'glossiness' of the new remasters. Where the 2001 remasters were just loud and in the process extinguished all life, character and details from the recordings, the 2018 versions amplify all those little details. Maybe a little to much even? Not sure. Not sure it matters. In the end, I'm glad for every excuse to listen to these songs one more time…
  5. c-eling

    c-eling Forum Resident

    It took me finding this forum to realize what the issue was. Probably one of the earliest shave and re-level's I have :yikes:
    A different point of view-. At least we still have a few peaks and valleys! :laugh:
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  6. kiefer2

    kiefer2 Forum Resident

    Brookhaven, Pa.

    Dear God I hope he never posts on SHF!
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  7. jamesc

    jamesc Formerly Known as Undertow

    Dallas, TX
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  8. dbucki

    dbucki Well-Known Member

    Ottawa, Canada
  9. portlandjulian

    portlandjulian Well-Known Member

    Before the rotten veg is slung at me, can I point out that the reviewer I quoted said that ! :) I have always liked vinyl, there is something special about it, even in this day and age and thats not counting all the 12'' or 7" I have had my hands on :D
    c-eling likes this.
  10. krafty

    krafty Active Member

    Ok, to wrap up without being too long...

    a) No. I think the whole preemphasis technology was an abortion really. It never stood up. It didn't last.
    As far as Please material is concerned, what I am saying is that the master tape is the ideal thing and the closest thing to it is the LP.
    Even in Discography, with these deemphasized tracks, I for one can tell you that Actually tracks are superior in every way within the same compilation, w/ Please tracks tweaked.

    b) No. I don't expect LP and CD to sound the same. But let's not paint the world here, of 50 shades of grey.
    Notice that Yes LP and Yes CD have different masters (LP is quieter) - however, they come from the same source. Difference does not even justify going for LP.
    Now read the case on Red Hot Chilli Pepers "Stadium Arcadium" CD version, versus LP version. That is where the LP will stand out because it was a complete different source.
    To thicken the layer, I will add Metallica "Death Magnetic" CD, versus the "golden chicken egg" proper mastering found in Guitar Hero, which caused fans to be infuriated.

    c) That's the boxset. Actually I have known this box set only after the announcement of Please/Actually 2018 reissues.
    I think I wouldn't go after it, online. Perhaps local shops in UK will have lower price - but I just recommend if you are zeroed in your collection.
    Otherwise, Actually UK CD, Introspective UK CD and Please UK/US/Japan LP will probably be what you want.
    anorak2 likes this.
  11. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    San Francisco
    Yeah, it was really harsh sounding I thought when it came out. I knew about dynamic range compression because I'd majored in broadcasting and knew it was used in radio - especially AM but also on FM radio to an increasing degree as the years went by, which is why FM started to sound like crap in the '80s. But I didn't realize it would be applied so dramatically to CDs - Very must have been one of the first to use modern digital compressors to the max.

    Granted, it isn't quite as annoying on dance music, because a lot of what gets pumped up is the bass, and that isn't as ear-bleeding as compressed midrange or god forbid treble.
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  12. friendofafriend

    friendofafriend Well-Known Member

    South Jordan, UT
    I completely respect the opinion of those who prefer the 2018 remaster of Please on cd over the original cd, but for myself, I don't think I could be happy listening to the album on the new cd version. I haven't tried, but my opinion is based on listening to this 2018 remaster on Spotify and iTunes.

    On the other hand, it was troubling to pay attention and realize that my 1986 Please cd doesn't always sound right on various cd players due to the pre-emphasis. I mainly play my cd's in three places: At home using a Pioneer BDP-80FD with the analog outputs into my receiver, in my car using the factory stereo system cd player (2014 Ford Edge), and at work using iTunes on my Macbook with an external cd-rom drive. I discovered that both my blu-ray player and iTunes were detecting the pre-emphasis on my Please cd and compensating for it, though it seemed to me that they were doing so slightly differently. However there were so many other factors (headphones vs speakers, different DAC's, different amps) that I can't be certain of that. I discovered that my car stereo did not detect or compensate at all for the pre-emphasis on this cd, which of course makes it sound completely wrong.

    My solution was just to create a new cd from the original one, which I figured I certainly needed to listen in my car. I was surprised to find that I also think my new burned cd also sounds noticeably better to me on my home system than the original pre-emphasis cd. I assume that just means I prefer the results of the steps I used vs. whatever my Pioneer blu-ray player is doing to apply de-emphasis.

    I know there are a lot of ways to do this, but here's what I did in case it helps anyone trying to do the same thing, or so someone who knows better can tell me what I did wrong: I first used XLD to rip the entire album as a 24-bit wav file with a cue file. I then use SoX to create a new 24-bit wav file with the de-emphasis applied. I then renamed the first 24-bit pre-emphasis file and used SoX with dither to create a new 16-bit wav file with original file name (the one referenced by the cue file) from the 24-bit de-emphasized wav file. I then manually edited the cue file to remove the "FLAGS PRE" line from each track. I then opened the cue file in XLD and burned a new cd. I'm very happy with the results, and I certainly get more uniform sound across my different cd players (of course, given that the one in my car doesn't handle the pre-emphasis at all).

    I also prefer the sound of my cd I created this way over my original vinyl copy, but I will say that my LP copy is a little bit noisy even after cleaning. I bought it used and it is in pretty good shape, but I'd guess it sounded better when it was brand new. I'm sure that a new copy of the 2018 vinyl would sound pretty good (I have 4 of the 2017 vinyl versions and I'm very happy with all of them), but I still think it likely has the dynamic range lowered enough that I would still prefer my original used LP over it.
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  13. c-eling

    c-eling Forum Resident

    I found my old US LP (mint) had no benefit due to format over my old PE disc. Blind test i'd probably fail, they are near identical. Even on a digital recording sometimes I can get better soundstage, this wasn't the case for this title.
    jamesc likes this.
  14. Scottb

    Scottb Well-Known Member

    Nanuet, NY, USA
    What's funny is that Bob Ludwig mastered the CD and then in the early 2000's posted that he wanted to get other mastering engineers to explain to their clients how massive compression ruins the sound. It's funny because he was one of the first mastering engineers to brick wall CD's.
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  15. c-eling

    c-eling Forum Resident

    Unfortunately the clients/labels didn't listen. I think if Ludwig would have had 'free reign' he'd be in his own studio along side Berry :sigh:
  16. Scottb

    Scottb Well-Known Member

    Nanuet, NY, USA
    Yes the clients wanted there releases to be loud. It's stupid because any radio airplay would already have tons of compression. Who is Berry?
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  17. c-eling

    c-eling Forum Resident

    Oops, spelling Barry Diament
    I was eating a blueberry muffin when posting :laugh:
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  18. Scottb

    Scottb Well-Known Member

    Nanuet, NY, USA
    Yes but when Ludwig left Masterdisc he did in fact open his own studio -Gateway Mastering Studios. I know he has to make a living but I think in 1993 not many mastering engineers were adding so much compression. He was at that point one of the few that was brickwalling CD's. I find it funny since later on he went on and on about how bad compression is and yet he was on of the first to brickwall a CD.
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  19. MarkusGermany

    MarkusGermany Well-Known Member

    Rheinberg, Germany
    The new „Actually“ remaster sounds fantastic. Much better than the original 1987 or 2001
    reissue IMO.
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  20. Scottb

    Scottb Well-Known Member

    Nanuet, NY, USA
    Also if you take say Meatloaf's 'Bat out of Hell 2' which also came out in 1993 and was mastered by Greg Calbi it sounds great and not that much compression. So in the early 90's many artists let the mastering engineer do there thing and yet Ludwig brickwalled it. It just amuses me when I read interviews from the past with him and yet he practically invented brickwalling.
  21. Starquest

    Starquest Active Member

    When are Behaviour and Very being reissued on vinyl? They seem to be saving the best for last :(

    Wonder if Very will sound better on vinyl and be less brickwalled.
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  22. MarkusGermany

    MarkusGermany Well-Known Member

    Rheinberg, Germany
    I own all new remasters except Release and Nightlife.
    Hope that Very and Behaviour will be reissued in summer. I‘ll skip Bilingual.
  23. modehead101

    modehead101 New Member

    'Was That What it Was' is also one of my fave PSB b-sides and was also surprised to read the PSB comments on that track years ago. I wish they would repress Alternative on vinyl but I doubt if they ever will. I'd recommend grabbing an original pressing of Behaviour on vinyl - it's a lush sounding record.

    What are the vinyl releases like of the first two albums? You can pick up the original pressings for next to nothing these days and I can't imagine remastered vinyl sounding any better than these? I will certainly grab Very though on vinyl.
  24. anorak2

    anorak2 Well-Known Member

    Berlin, Germany
    Could you elaborate about those comments? I seem to remember that it was a collaboration with the Latin Rascals with lots of tape editing, but I might misremember.
  25. portlandjulian

    portlandjulian Well-Known Member

    They are great according to the comments on the Pet Shop Boys forum ;)

    The vinyls sound awesome, have just played them on an expensive hi-fi system, a great remastering effort !

    I absolutely agree with that remark. Vinyls sound great, really enjoying them in a not so expensive sound system!

    Likewise on vinyl of Please - Tonight is forever has all kinds of details I've missed before. Very satisfying hearing these subtly, but distinctly better and fuller.

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