Chart of the one oddball title so far. I'm noticing tho, we don't have WG discs for any of the other titles. Do they exist? If they do I'll bet they're different!
I'm pretty sure the West German Charisma is out there, in either the Yellow Rays or Blue Face, etc. guises. It's gotta be the same disc as the Target with a different label. Every West German Target with an 800 series matrix has a European counterpart on a different Polygram/Phonogram label, that I've seen, anyway.
Glad you like the SACD's. What in your opinion do they have over the original V/C CD's? Just curious. Personally, the SACD's could have been done quite a bit better than they were.
Looking at that chart really helps. A preliminary glance suggests that there are potentially only two completely different masterings of IV (excluding the German version). So now the question is whether there are any WG discs of the earlier titles (I, II, III). I can't help but ask why the negative (and somewhat elitist) attitude? As an early post indicated, there have been quite a few attempts to figure out Peter Gabriel on CD, so what's the harm in finally doing it? Furthermore, by recommending the SACDs are you referring to the SACD layer? Aren't the redbook layers equal to the remasters? It seems quite a few members prefer the original V/Cs to the remasters.
I'm relaxing before the feeding frenzy begins. Here are the redbook layers from the I & II SACD's: I (SACD redbook layer) 99.4 / 99.4 / 99.4 / 99.3 / 99.3 / 99.4 / 99.3 / 99.4 / 99.4 II (SACD redbook layer) 99.5 / 99.4 / 84.8 / 99.5 / 99.3 / 99.3 / 94.9 / 99.4 / 99.3 / 99.4 / 99.4
Hi, I am searching for the WG pressings of (I, II, III) myself but so far to no avail. I would assume that they must exist? I could be wrong. I must try harder though Simon
It's quite possible I'm incorrect. But here are the peak levels (from a separate thread) that I read for IV: Geffen/Universal 069 493 280-2 (matrix = 0694932662 0997011202 MFG BY MATSUSHITA UNIVERSAL MEDIA SERVICES) [US remaster] 99.3 % - 93.4 % - 99.4 % - 99.3 % - 99.4 % - 99.4 % - 99.4 % - 99.3 % Virgin SAPGCD 4 (matrix = 5830752 CD 1) [CD layer of Japanese made Hybrid SACD] 99.3 % - 93.4 % - 99.4 % - 99.3 % - 99.4 % - 99.4 % - 99.4 % - 99.3 % Here's the link to the thread: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=148295
Just checked at discogs.com and the European Real World Records/Virgin Remaster (PG 1 - PGCDR 1, 7243 8 11678 2 3) was done at Metropolis in London - released in 2002. The SACD was remastered at Metropolis in London, released in 2003. It does makes sense they used the same mastering for SACD redbook as the 2002 CD release. Would like someone to confirm with the logs I posted above for I & II if possible.
I'm thinking the only Peter Gabriel CD's that were only initially released in early on, are IV (Security-1984) and So(1986). I think the rest of the CD's(I, II, and III) were released on CD in 1986 or afterwards.
Peak levels for my US Remaster of I (069 493 299-2): 99.4 / 99.4 / 99.4 / 99.3 / 99.3 / 99.4 / 99.3 / 99.4 / 99.4 The same as the SACD redbook layer.
I don't think so, not that I've ever seen. In the early 80's, I think that Mercury/Phonogram had the rights for III, until Geffen released it on CD later on, in the U.S. anyway. This is when Atlantic made a huge mistake dumping him, and David Geffen cashed in. Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah! I've been searching as well, and the only CD's that I'm presuming existed in 1984 were the Target of Security(IV) and it's European counterpart(Charisma/Phonogram?) Something to this effect. I think Deutsches album(IV) may have been around on CD.
What the data is showing us is what pre-remaster options actually exist. For instance the US and Euro versions are different straight across the board. It doesn't tell is which is better, just what different masterings exist. So, according to your advice, we ignore all our options. Just declare the most recent mastering the winner, without comparing them to anything, or even caring whether they differ at all? Sound advice!
No so sure about that. Certainly the Black triangle and Virgin UK ones are similar, probably level-shifted. The US Geffen has the same general look, but some of the tracks are close, some way quieter, one louder. Maybe it was a tweaked version of the Virgin transfer? If so, I'll bet something else went on besides a simple level shift. Some actual mastering, in other words. I only have the Target here, so I can't compare. It's funny that this one had a big banner across the front proudly stating "Full Digital Recording". You'd think everything would be a digital clone, but so far we have more versions of IV then any other.
'Featuring slightly-choked fidelity, as well as compression and clipping on the red-book layers'. No disrespect to LeeS or TooTull, but I found that for my tastes, the original UK masterings bettered the SACD's, IMHO.
Thank you for the explanation. When you guys get so technical it makes my head spin and it takes the joy out of the music. I do declare the SACDs the winner.
The SACDs are more musical. They have more harmonic overtones and frequency extension. The instruments sound more natural on the SACDs. The old cds are muddy by comparison, expecially on 1, 2, and 3. The older A to D converters used on the originals are obviously not as good as the more modern A to D converters used on the SACDs.
