When you say the "originals' are you referring to the US cd's on Atco and Geffen? Because everyone who's heard all the issues say the European V/C's are far, far better.
I can understand what you mean by that, but A/B'ing the SACD's with the V/C originals that I've had for 20 years really opened my eyes, so to speak. The new versions aren't bad by any means, but both masterings sound like they use the same sources, and the originals aren't manipulated with EQ or compression. The biggest surprise was PG V (So). I was confident that the SACD was gonna be the victor, and after listening to them both over a day or so, the original Geffen or Black Triangle(the same), was much more natural and dynamic.
I think I may be able to shed a little light on the early pressings of Peter Gabriel 4 (Security). I recently acquired a copy of Security numbered Charisma 800 091-2. This disc is similar to the early And Then There Were Three... Genesis cd numbered Charisma 800 059-2 which has the purple swirl on a pink background. Only this disc has a pink swirl on a stock silver background. I do not have EAC on my computer, so i will have to post the values later. Meterman
That is one cool looking disc! Crap. Looks like it's more searching and spending for me. Thanks for clarifying.
Gentlemen, apparently I have a very rare bird in my collection, a Geffen WG for U.S. pressing of III (Melt). So at least one W. German pressing of one of the first three albums exists I won't be able to run it through EAC until this weekend, but I'll report back
Wow...That one's not even on Ralph's Target CD site. Please post the matrix numbers on that if possible. It could be possible that it was an isolated U.S. only release, if it doesn't have the 800 series Polygram matrix.
Well, see you're making a blanket statement about the "old CDs" while at the same time telling everyone to "ignore the BS numbers". The BS numbers are telling us there are likely three distinct early masterings of each album. How can you tell everyone to ignore all the old versions if you've only compared one? I find blanket statements made in ignorance to take all the fun out of this.
Neat! Does it actually say "Security" on it? I think I'm right in saying it was only called that in the US by Geffen? My Geffen made in WG target has 800 091-2 in the matrix. Peaks match a blue-faced WG Charisma posted earlier. I'm betting yours will match.
I forgot to mention (this whole time!) that I have a West German Geffen CD of Plays Live Disc Two. I don't know when this was released on CD, but if anyone (with EAC) has the standard original US we can compare peak levels. Maybe the results would shed some light on III.
No, my WG for U.S. III cd is not a Target. It's a typical silver-faced, silver to the center, Polygram pressing. I'll supply the matrix info when I post the EAC peaks, but my recollection is that it ends in 01 (I know that will interest Simon if no one else )
the Original US pressing of IV/Security is one of those criminally quiet masterings like Talking Head's "Remain in Light", it just always sounded awful to me. The SACD is amazing. So for that one alone, I really think the remaster is the way to go. The later albums always sounded fine, I have the SACDs, but I prefer the original track listing on So.
Hrm, criminally quiet? These are the peak volumes of my original US Sire disc, purchaced back in the day as soon as it was available: Track 1 - 95.5% Track 2 - 80.5% Track 3 - 100.0% Track 4 - 100.0% Track 5 - 100.0% Track 6 - 100.0% Track 7 - 94.2% Track 8 - 99.9% So, we've got 5 of the tracks where the loudest sound is as loud as a CD can possibly go. Two of the tracks are essentially 95% of full volume. Only one track, San Jacinto is significantly lower. Now, if you're talking the perceived volume is louder on the remaster that's a different thing. That would be where they compress the dynamic range, by making all the quieter sounds louder in relation to the louder ones. If you like that sound, you're certainly welcome to that opinion. Many folks however prefer the full dynamic range of the original left intact.
I have these early Gabriel CDs. Peter Gabriel 4 (Security) has matrix number 800091 2 01. The Live Highlights disc has catalogue number 812 445-2 and matrix number 812 445-2 02.
If you could publish full info cat numbers, if it is a PolyGram or Sonopress disc as well as matrix numbers that will be great Thanks Simon
I got a copy of PG 3 today on SACD. Biko, Intruder and Games Without Frontiers sound great. This is a better sounding SACD than I or II imho. I'm going to see if I can listen to the Virgin Charisma CDs for comparison.
Wow! You folks have been busy! I guess none of you were on gift-wrap and chauffer duties the last few days!!! Other than new titles, I don't think I'm adding much as I think some of my posts from other threads have been quoted, but here's what I have. I have stopped at Us, as I assume that from that point on there will be no differences, but if we find that to not be the case, I have all the post-Us albums too (though someone else can have the privilege of doing the 50-CD live box-sets!). I have not included the re-masters (or hybrids) as they are the same irrespective of country of manufacture. As for preferences, I will need to find time to do some comparisons and report back as I have not listened to much Gabriel in a long time -- so much music, so little time! Thanks to bopdd for collating all the data. I - V/C PGCD1 - no country - matrix = PGCD 1 . MASTERED BY NIMBUS 91.2 % - 97.7 % - 97.7 % - 87.1 % - 93.3 % - 97.7 % - 97.6 % - 89.7 % - 97.7 % >>> Same as V/C and VJD. II - V/C PGCD2 - no country - matrix = PGCD 2 : MASTERED BY NIMBUS 97.7 % - 97.7 % - 58.7 % - 97.7 % - 97.7 % - 92.0 % - 97.7 % - 96.5 % - 97.7 % - 97.7 % - 97.7 % >>> Same as V/C. III - V/C PGCD3 / 0777 7 86369 2 2 - Holland - matrix = 786369 2 @ 4 1-1-13-NL 95.5 % - 95.5 % - 37.1 % - 95.5 % - 95.5 % - 95.5 % - 95.5 % - 95.5 % - 43.5 % - 95.5 % >>> Same as Nimbus & Black Triangle. III - Geffen 2035-2 - USA - matrix = DIDX-001873 5 79.1 % - 76.1 % - 28.3 % - 76.3 % - 59.0 % - 80.9 % - 82.0 % - 86.4 % - 34.7 % - 74.0 % >>> NOT the same as foobar2000's despite having the same matrix!!!! I checked my disc in EAC twice!! III (Ein Deutsches Album) - V/C XCDSCD4019 / 0777 7 86767 2 0 - Holland - matrix = 786767 @ 1 1-2-4-NL 95.5 % - 95.5 % - 95.5 % - 95.5 % - 95.5 % - 95.4 % - 95.5 % - 26.6 % - 92.7 % (NB: 9 tracks!) >>> Same as Nimbus. Security - Geffen 2011-2 - USA - matrix = DIDX-1012 1 MANUFACTURED BY DADC 96.4 % - 49.2 % - 67.0 % - 58.2 % - 89.3 % - 78.3 % - 57.9 % - 100.0 % >>> Same as Geffen. IV (Deutsches Album) - V/C XPGCD 4 / 0777 7 87220 2 1 - Holland - matrix = 787220 2 @ 1 1-2-3-NL 100.0 % - 85.1 % - 90.9 % - 75.4 % - 86.1 % - 73.3 % - 93.0 % - 78.3 % (NB: tracks 2 and 4 swapped!) >>> Same as V/C. Plays Live - V/C CDPGD 100 / 0777 7 86392 2 0 - Holland Disc 1 - matrix = 786393 2 @ 3 2-1-2-NL 95.5 % - 95.5 % - 95.5 % - 92.1 % - 100.0 % - 89.2 % - 97.4 % - 96.3 % Disc 2 - matrix = 786394 2 @ 1-1-3-NL 88.1 % - 99.4 % - 93.9 % - 100.0 % - 100.0 % - 98.2 % - 93.8 % - 83.7 % Birdy - V/C CASCD 1167 - UK - matrix = CASCD 1167 : MASTERED BY NIMBUS 62.7 % - 100.0 % - 50.4 % - 21.8 % - 41.2 % - 36.3 % - 80.4 % - 46.2 % - 95.4 % - 57.4 % - 24.8 % - 40.4 % So - V/C PGCD 5 / 0777 7 86366 2 5 - Holland - matrix = 786366 2 @ 1-2-S-NL 75.8 % - 75.8 % - 75.8 % - 75.8 % - 75.8 % - 68.6 % - 75.8 % - 75.8 % - 75.8 % >>> Same as EMI Swindon UK. >>> Note: color splash on spine/back = red. I have seen other colors too. Passion - Real World RWCD1 / 353 539-222 - West Germany - matrix = SONOPRESS C-7348/RWCD1 A 95.5 % - 57.8 % - 95.4 % - 19.9 % - 95.5 % - 59.8 % - 95.4 % - 61.0 % - 95.5 % - 47.0 % - 50.0 % - 54.8 % - 91.2 % - 51.6 % - 89.5 % - 51.5 % - 33.2 % - 60.6 % - 95.5 % - 95.5 % - 42.9 % Shaking The Tree - Virgin PGTVD 6 / 0777 7 86326 2 7 - Holland - matrix = 786326 2 @ 6 2-1-17-NL 100.0 % - 100.0 % - 92.8 % - 83.0 % - 86.7 % - 93.5 % - 79.3 % - 90.9 % - 71.0 % - 80.9 % - 99.9 % - 93.8 % - 100.0 % - 100.0 % - 84.9 % - 94.7 % Us - Real World PGCD 7 / 0777 7 864 55 2 8 - Austria - matrix = 7864552 12 B6 DADC AUSTRIA 93.6 % - 64.8 % - 63.0 % - 100.0 % - 75.7 % - 80.9 % - 82.5 % - 69.7 % - 75.0 % - 100.0 %
