Petition launched to reintroduce Technics turntables (Update: The SL-1200 is Back!)*

I suppose we also need to know if the stock headshell was actually used. Does both tables come with the same headshell by the way?

 

Agreed, part of the reason i asked the question. Both tables seem to come with the same 7.6G headshell.

 

Folloni,

I thought I'd drag this up from page 101. If you compare the G and GR tonearm resonances you might get a feel for why they might sound different in the midrange. The G arm is cleaner.

Compare the GR graph with the G graph on page 47 of: http://ebook-dl.com/magazine/hi-fi-news-june-20169302.pdf

Resonance can create noise or sound coloration at best.

 

For some reason they have different part numbers, but they look the same to me.

 

This answer might also interest @avanti1960 who asked about it in the first place.

 

The GR did not sound warmer. It was a question of smoothness and refineness, not warmth. I guess you could say the G was less edgy. It was just a more pleasant listen. The GR seemed to have more raw oomph, though. I though it would be great for hard rock/dance music.
Listener bias cannot be discounted. At the time of the trial I had had the GAE for almost a year and listened to it daily and was used to the sound. The GR was a newcomer. Both me and my wife, however, could reliably tell which turntable was playing without any difficulties. There was a pronounced difference in our system.

I used stock shells for both. They are similar but not identical. The G shell weighs 7.6g, the GR 7.8g. Both have gold leads, the GR shell has a shorter handle.

There is confusion around Goldring 1042 compliance. The manufacturer stated value seems to be vertical compliance. As tested on the GAE, the resonant frequencies come out as follows:
Horizontal resonance = 8Hz according to the HFN test record, 9Hz measured directly
Vertical resonance = 12Hz according to the HFN test record, 14Hz measured directly

 

There’s a Technics protractor ready to print on vinyl engine. I just checked my alignment of two cartridges on two head shells, both done with the alignment gauge, and they were both dead on. Very cool and easy to set up. I love this turntable so much.

Someone mentioned using the Blue Jeans LC-1 cables for low capacitance. Like minds!

I couldn’t afford the G, but no part of me wishes I could. I think I’ll take the GR to the grave.

 

Interesting thing...I recently bought a new M97xE cart to swap between my 41 year old Technics SL-1600 and my 16 year old SL-1200 mk2....I set the cart up in the SL-1600's headshell using the original overhang gauge that came with it back in 1977. After initial setup I checked the alignment using the protractor that came with the new Shure cart. Guess what?...the aligment points lined up perfectly on both TT's. I guess Technics had this alignment stuff aced over 40 years ago.

 

thanks for the thoughtful reply!

 

I found that one too- Baerwald alignment. I thought Technics uses Stevenson. I prefer to use the protractor because you can line up the cantilever, not the body of the cartridge.

 

I found the GR test and it has a wider range of resonant frequencies with low and diminishing peaks- but the G tonearm has a very high peak at a certain frequency.
Since mass is the only variable we can work with, it would be interesting to plot those frequency graphs using different mass headshells and cartridges.
Anyone know how to measure that? Test LP? Thanks.

 

I don’t know, but it lined up perfectly.

As for the cantilever, there’s a little dip on the end of the alignment gauge that should line up with the cantilever/stylus.

 

understood, but the tip can be correct but the angle incorrect. the length of the cantilever needs to line up with the center line of the gauge which is difficult to visualize without a stripe.

 

Just used this tool to generate a protractor using the SL-1200 specs listed on vinyl engine (215mm pivot to spindle, inner groove 60.325, outer groove 146.05). I haven’t spent too much time examining this yet, but from a cursory check my alignment using the supplied Technics gauge matched the null points and arc perfectly.

 

Glad you got it setup (sorry for my delay! Am out of town). I used the same values and tool so you are good!

 

Mass isn't the only thing we can change and I can't see how headshell/cart mass will affect the vibration characteristics of the arm tube. I think that the resonances for both the G and GR arms can be damped out using either an INNER or OUTER rubber tubing. I would think that any tonearm will have resonances somewhere in the audible range and that arm damping might always be a good idea. I'm hedging in my comment since I can't say for 100% but I found the tubing helpful on my G arm and KAB sure thinks it's a good idea. While I never "heard" the G arm resonance at around 300HZ in play, I could hear it in static tests and pretty much eliminated it with the tubing. I bet that if the main difference in the GR and G sound is due to the arms then tubing might bring them closer together in sound. All at a cost of about $1.50!

 

Just because I don't think it's been done yet, and could be of some use to others, I pulled out the tested specs from the HiFi News reviews of the GAE and GR models, and am posting them here for sake of comparison. As you can see, they are extremely close, with the silent groove rumble measurement showing the greatest difference. I would imagine that's due to the different platter, as HiFi News surmises, but also possibly the greater overall mass of the GAE. Note that they didn't measure the regular-edition G model, though I would expect it to be identical, or nearly identical, to the GAE.

Turntable speed error at 33.33 rpm
GAE: 33.33 rpm (+0.006%)
GR: 33.32 (-0.044%)

Time to audible stabilization
GAE: <1 sec
GR: 1.5 sec

Peak wow/flutter
GAE: 0.01%/0.02%
GR: 0.02%/0.02%

Rumble (silent groove, DIN B weighted)
GAE: -74.3dB
GR: -70.7 dB

Rumble (through bearing, DIN B weighted)
GAE: -73.3 dB
GR: -72.9 dB

Hum & Noise (unweighted, rel. to 5 cm/sec)
GAE: -62.6 dB
GR: -62.8 dB

Power consumption
GAE: 5-11 W
GR: 4-17 W

Dimensions (WHD)/Weight
GAE: 453x170x372mm / 18 kg
GR: 453x173x372mm / 11.5 kg

 

And here's the comparison on the resonant frequencies of the arms between the two models:

"While the ’1200GAE’s cold-drawn magnesium tube delivered one very clear resonant mode at a remarkably high 300Hz, the alloy equivalent [of the GR model] demonstrates a very different and more complex series of resonances more in keeping with other S-shaped tonearms we’ve tested in the past. Bending modes at 85Hz and 150Hz are joined by a trio of higher-Q resonances at 215Hz, 270Hz and 310Hz – the latter showing some ‘reflection’ back from the bearing – and what appears to be the detachable headshell flexing at 590Hz."

Additionally, HiFi News found the arm bearing friction of the GAE to be unmeasurable at less than 5 mg, and the GR arm bearing friction to be "very low" at 5-10 mg.

My take: while these distinctions do make a difference that reviewers describe as audible, the GR is a world-class performer in its price range, and for me, the difference is not enough to justify the jump in sticker price. For others, it may be, and that's a matter of personal taste and finances.

 

Just curious, did you actually compare the two yourself?

 

Mass is not the only lever we have to affect resonance but it can be effective. In modal vibration analysis of a system, the higher the mass the lower the natural resonant frequency.

 

No, there isn’t a dealer anywhere close to me. But I don’t doubt that the differences reviewers describe are there.

 

Has anybody noticed that Guitar Center in the US appears to be carrying the SL-1210GR (black variant)? I thought only the silver was going to be available in the US. Also I understood from other dealers that they were requiring them to carry the full Technics line, which Guitar Center does not appear to be doing.

In any event, here’s another option for anyone looking for one of these.

 

Went to my local hi fi show today, saw and heard the new Technics and it is very sexy, they had both the motor unit and the plinthed version which was playing, I didn't like the music they were using and it was an all Technics system, other than an Audio Technics cart, I really don't think the speakers were up to the job, but I definitely want to hear it in a better system and environment, there were hints of brilliance there, this may be THE direct drive deck. They also had a couple of the extra arm boards for SME and Ortofon, UK price £1,000 each, I asked the man from Japan if they'd do 12" arm boards, they will, but even more money, my guess £1,200 or more, there is no option for the Technics plinth without the Technics arm, kind of frustrating if you want to mount those extra arm boards, but don't want to use a Technics arm. I did take a couple of poor photos, but Imgur isn't working at the moment.

 

Seems strange that so many people think highly of their new turntables, but are almost universally dismissive of their electronics and speakers. You would think there would be some synergy, I wonder how much listening is involved in the design stage, and how much comparison listening is done to other high end products.

 

Sounds like you're talking about the SP-10R / SL-1000R discussed in another thread, as opposed to an SL-1200Gxx.