Petition launched to reintroduce Technics turntables (Update: The SL-1200 is Back!)*

Will you use a clamp? I forgot to mention in my post that I use one. I'm convinced a clamp gives better coupling between the lp and mat -- better than a weight too since the clamp can put more pressure on the lp without weighing on the bearing.

 

Was thinking of what I could do to "upgade" my 1210GR and was considering a new mat, KAB fluid damper and a clamp.

Any suggestions on a clamp for the 1210?

 

I like the Michell "Rega" clamp. Mine works very well on my G. The regular Michell clamp supposedly needs a longer spindle than on the G and presumably on the GR although some have used it successfully on the older 1200s. The regular clamp uses a washer under the clamp at the spindle so that when the clamp is pushed down, the lp forms kind of a cymbal shape and is pushed tight to the mat. The "Rega" clamp dispenses with this washer. One thing I did was to adhere a narrow band of cork (1mm think) to the outer rim of my platter. The idea being to give a bit of dish to the lp so the clamp pushes it against the mat. In a perfect world lps would be flat and not need this but ...

I also put the KAB damper on my G. While I can't say I hear any improvement it sure does help with the occasional warp. I can track lps that are scary bad -- although I don't play them as a rule.

I also put a latex rubber tube over my tonearm to help eliminate pesky arm tube vibrations. KAB does the same thing but inside the tube. The problem is, that requires a rewiring of the arm.

 

I have three different record clamps/weights on hand, and I fully intend to try at least one of them.

 

+1 for the Michell "R" clamp.

 

Clamping firmly enough to slightly dish an LP may contribute to mis-tracking, and may also change the azimuth relationship enough to hear a channel imbalance.

A good platter mat makes full contact with the playing surface, but not the LP label or rim areas. LPs should be flat and level on a level platter. Warps show up most often closer to the outer 1/3 of an LP. Spindle weights and spindle clamps don’t address any of that.

Some spindle clamp and spindle weight designs actually transfer motor vibration from the spindle to the playing surface of an LP, so be careful what you buy.

 

I found the effect of a weight & also the Michell clamp was negative (pace & timing) on my 1200G so I son't use them.

 

My experience is that a LOT of vinyl isn't flat and can have a slight dish which results in a raised lp when playing one side. I'm calling this a warp but maybe I need a better term -- maybe a cup? The amount I'm "dishing" I give my lps is extremely sight and certainly no more than I commonly find with many an lp just sitting on the platter. In my case, the maximum slope would be at the perimeter. Michell clamps are designed to do this exact thing with their regular clamps but in reverse.

I'm hoping that the G doesn't have any noise to transfer from the spindle to the lp or that it is a magnitude lower than any benefit from a clamp. (I don't hear anything.) Without some kind of weight or clamp I don't see how changing the mat would have much effect, assuming I understand what the mat does.

I would love to have a rim clamp but no such animal exists for a Technics TT that I am aware of.

 

Could you explain what you mean by "pace and timing?" I'm ignorant of a lot of terms that seem to be understood by those who come from a music background. I would have thought that pace and timing were a function of platter speed and the recording?

 

Rhythm & pace are both a form of liveliness (a lot of music has a lively tempo & flow to it & a good audio system should attempt to recreate that).

 

I guess I'd need to listen while someone pointed it out to me. I have a hard time with a lot of the terms used in general. I'm slowly getting a feel for "weight" and "clarity" but that's about it.

 

Ignoring his inaccurate assumptions in the preamble and concentrating on sound he likes it with the suggested mods. However £1 -2K is excessive as you can get good cables, mat and better headshell for quite a bit less. If you can find the TT at a discount you still won't be much over the £3K list price. I've heard too many bad things about the OL TTs and arms he has to consider them. Price wise (UK) it should be put up against the Michell Orbe SE or Notts Hyperspace. Looks like you have to buy to try with this deck.

 

Could be a filtering effect baring in mind the G uses a switch mode PS. Attaching a ferrite ring to the power chord may do the same job a lot cheaper.

 

He reviews for Hi-Fi World magazine in the UK. I'm not doubting his integrity but have never liked his review style. Until HFW he was primarily a record reviewer for Record Collector and other magazines. Started on music reviews for HFW and suddenly after being introduced to some high end kit was doing equipment reviews. I don't doubt the supplied interconnects will be pants though. I certainly think there is sense in a solid headshell with MC cartridges. Mat difference can be subjective to say the least. Anybody tried a minimal mat (even paper) on the already well damped platter?

 

My power chord uses 1.5m of (long-since discarded) Kimber 8TC black-blue cable + a separate 4mm ground conductor soldered into a heavy duty plug + a Furutech IEC connector. Woven & massively thick in this application, the cable was supposedly meant to reduce RF interference to speakers.

Years ago & suffering a bout of hifi paranoia (since cured) I made up several of these in various lengths - no idea if they actually do as mentioned above but they surely cannot do any harm so I dug one out to use on the 1200G.

 

It took me years to finally eliminate a hum in my all tube system. It turned out to be proximity of ICs to electrical outlets and was completely independent of proximity to power cords -- all unshielded. It's all a mystery!

 

I'm sure Kimber cable does act as a filter. I bought a yellow budget version and it did benefit my Pioneer 400X but hasn't made any difference with anything else I tried. Maybe Technics underspecked their mains cable in relation to current load.

 

Well, this evening I got my 1200G. I did a basic set up using the Feickert protractor.
I have a few spare cartridges available but I decided to install the Ortofon 2M black cause I really like how it sounds. I played a few records not listening critically, but just to make sure that everything works.

First impressions are extremely positive. The hype is real people!
Even without putting too much thought on the set up this thing sounds amazing out of the box.
I am excited to do more critical listening and comparison in the next days.

 

The SL1200GR is very quiet in operation with well controlled resonance through the motor and spindle that is largely inaudible. What little resonance does find its way up the spindle is completely eliminated by the stock mat. It’s also eliminated by many other alternative mats including the Herbie’s 3mm mat, several of the rubber/cork composite mats (but not the Wooden Bull mat as far as I can tell), the Boston Audio Mat 1 (no longer available) and the Funk Firm expanded foam sandwich mat.

The SL1200G/GAE are even quieter, with mechanical noise reduced so much that a stethoscope is needed to hear anything clearly. Even then, the resonance is inconsequential. The GR and the G both are quite remarkable in that respect.

A good quality platter mat (e.g., cork, rubber, cork/rubber composites, polyurethane, foam, foam sandwich, paper, etc.) is designed to do four things: damp platter-borne vibration/resonance (from the air, motor, spindle, bearing), provide a non-slip surface that prevents microscopic slippage while a stylus is tracking a groove (improves bass, reduces blur, increases clarity), provides a non-damaging surface on which an LP can rest while playing, and it damps airborne vibration that the LP may pick up.

Different platter mat composite and non-composite materials have the effect of increasing or decreasing the amount of damping, and decreasing or increasing the distance between the platter surface and the stylus in the LP groove. Some people who have hearing that is particuarly sensitive in the relatively narrow band of frequencies affected by platter mats can easily notice the differences that some mats can make. For many other audiophiles who are less sensitive in that frequency band, platter mats are a big nothing. But at least half the audiophiles I know can detect subtle changes for better or worse when trying different platter mats.

I’ve tried literally a couple of dozen different mats on every turntable I’ve ever owned, including the SL1200G. The Boston Audio Mat 1 and the Funk Firm mat were both very good, but I’m personally most satisfied by the stock Technics mat without a doubt.

There are also a variety of mats on the market right now that have oversize spindle holes. The idea is that if the center hole of the platter mat is not physically touching the spindle, less of whatever miniscule spindle resonance is present can be transferred to the LP and therefore the mat has to do less ‘work’. The theory is interesting as far as it goes, and some turntable makers (e.g., Vertere) actually machine the upper spindle to a smaller diameter than standard. The Vertere is supplied with a little magnetic cap that you place on the spindle, after which you position an LP and then remove the little cap. That centers the LP on the platter while preventing the spindle from making physical contact with the LP. It’s all very interesting, but nobody has ever done any actual measurement to determine if it makes any difference. When using a mat with an oversize hole on a non-Vertere turntable (i.e., on most turntables ever made) , you’re left to center the mat on your own. If you don't get it right and your turntable doesn’t have a strong motor and speed control system, the off-center platter mat can cause minor speed fluctuation. The truck-like torque of the SL1200GR/G/GAE is not affected by any slight platter mat offset, but I was careful to ensure the Boston mat was centered while I was using it.

Back to the stock Technics mat anyway. It’s very, very good.

 

I will try the stock mat again as I have made some changes to the headshell and leads.

 

How does it compare with your other turntables? How it performs against lower and higher price point at least gives an indication of it's value. Comments range from as good as £20K TT to lacklustre without fettling, so far. How does it perform with a top MC? Any hum issues with MC? Not a clear perspective so far apart from the Fremer videos and review? Fremer used a rather expensive thin leather type mat IIRC. Unfortunately I couldn't find the demo at this years Bristol (UK) show (indicated dem room was shut at the time). Hoping they have it at the Leamington Spa show next month.

 

The small spindle is pretty well a Touraj Moghaddam design principle which he introduced in the original Roksan Xerxes turntable over 30 years ago. Vertere are just a development of those ideas using perspex plinths and a very high price tag. Nobody else has done this as far as I know. Does rule out use of a clamp if this design element makes any audible improvement.

 

Orsonic made a clamp that works with the 1200G spindle

 

Talking about Vertere turntables in relation to the removable spindle design (same as Roksan). As far as I'm aware Technics have normal spindles.

 

The GR just won the EISA award.
The 2018 EISA Hi-Fi Citations