Petition launched to reintroduce Technics turntables (Update: The SL-1200 is Back!)*

Right, that is not a major difference. The material is different, design is the same. An aluminum arm is preferable, actually, because aluminum is stronger and more rigid while magnesium is more flexible. Unsure why they went with magnesium in the G/GAE, other than to be different. Magnesium isn't significantly more expensive than aluminum, although it is a little harder to machine. Its value is in its lightness, not in strength, stiffness, or anti-resonant properties.

 

Wow, that had a lot of typos. Still comprehensible, I hope. My iPhone autocorrect is usually to blame.

 

If memory serves me, it would entirely depend on which alloys of aluminum and magnesium they are using. Neither is the pure metal I am sure. In general magnesium alloys are used over aluminum when you need lighter/lower inertia, higher precision parts. Magnesium alloys are also supposed to have better vibration damping properties.

 

I don't know enough about coreless motors -- which are said by design to eliminate the cogging of induction motors, but Technics, which touted the original drive system and two-rotor coreless motor on the old SL1200, and the new down market one as "elminating cogging," also touts the single-rotor one as better because it "eliminates cogging." Obviously if cogging was "eliminated" by the first, coreless, two-rotor motor, it can't be more "eliminated" e, so I'm not sure what Technics is truly talking about, either it's eliminated or not eliminated. So what exactly is Technics saying about these new motors and drive systems?

With induction motors in other kinds of tables you have cogging -- from the way the alternating rotors of the motor are driven -- and under load the cogging produces torque ripple and the transmission to the platter and/or tonearm of vibrations from of all that is a major source of noise -- vinyl whoosh, that sense you have of a record playing, noise between grooves -- that masks detail, and vibration that can even affect tracking. And with induction motors there are ways to mitigate the impact of these challenges -- by how you drive the motor, by isolating the motor from the arm, by trying to damp or channel motor vibration, by using heavier and/or perimeter weighted platters to smooth rotational variation by inertia.

The direct drive tables with the coreless motors have different qualities, but obviously a lot of what Technics focused on in the development of the upmarket new turntable is the motor, the drive system, the platter and platter weight, so there must be something going on with these coreless motors and their impact on the sonics that the company was trying to address in the new design. The old SL1200 certainly wasn't the "blackest black" kind of turntable ever made, whatever the specs for rumble show, and it's really noise and tracking and timbral characteristics that in my experience with induction motors, is where the differences show up, not w&f specs.

Hopefully someone who knows about coreless motors can explain them -- I've always had belt drive tables with induction motors so I never needed to learn really about coreless motors. But really, I think one of the biggest challenges of turntables is that you have to stick a motor with all it's vibration right in the middle of the system, and mitigating the sonic impacts of that is one of the biggest challenges for any turntable designer and manufacturer.

 

Just got word from my dealer that the GR version has been pushed back by Technics to the end of July...

 

That sucks. Though, would that give you more time to perhaps just save up and go with a G?

 

Hmm, that's strange, guess it's just US distribution since people have taken delivery in Europe for the last few weeks, was just reading a comparison thread at Vinyl Engine a few days ago with two or three members discussing their new toys ... Technics SL-1200MK5G or SL-1200GR? - Vinyl Engine

 

I'm curious to what everyone here thinks of the new line of refurbished Tech's? I saw them here at TTL recently and I think its a pretty good idea plus more cost effective option for this classic audio hardware:

==> TECHNICS SL-1210MK5 Turntable - Stokyo MCC Refurbished at Turntable Lab

Lemme know what you think!

 

Waaaay more than I want to spend on a TT.

 

Yeah, first it was end of May, then mid-June, there were rumors they'd begin shipping/delivering this week, now another 4-5 weeks. The vinyl is starting to pile up!!!

 

One guy in that VE thread, I think in Germany, apparently got two bad units, or at least two with noise problems he couldn't resolve, so maybe that has something to do with the delay, getting the kinks out. Or that may just be isolated incident, so many different setups that a turntable has to be compatible with, all over the world. They may just be worried about handling the demand in the US market, seems to be a lot of interest, even at the relatively high price point compared to the old model, so need to get enough product ready.

 

I read somewhere Tehnics were overwhelmed with demand for the table. I'm really interested myself, not that I need a new table, but it looks so promising. So right, maybe they are rolling out the Europe and other markets first. If it's mostly handmade like the G must be tough to keep up. Let's hope they don't compromise anything.

I read that as well. It did sound like he was using the stock RCA which is like a very cheap low end cable they just throw in for P+P, but really should be replaced immediately with something better. It could have been responsible for his issues... I was kind of shocked he would use that cable, maybe he wasn't an audiophile.

Someone else in that thread reported that the 1200GR was a great table and they had no issues with theirs — they were loving it!

Can't wait for release!

 

Another review:

Technics SL-1200GR turntable, for DJs or audiophiles or both?

 

Ugh the review had the potential to really dig into the sound but alas it's pretty vanilla. One sentence on comparison with the pioneer and that the technics is "way better" but would have loved a deeper comparison.

 

Well, they say the best way to find out is for yourself. Just placed an order for a GR with ortofon 2m blue. The dealer should be getting their shipment hopefully this week and sent out to me sometime next week!

 

What's it costing you to find out for yourself? Should be a nice step up from a U-Turn..

 

Can't wait to hear your impressions!

 

Actually, aluminum would have better vibration damping than magnesium! A magnesium arm would be lighter but also more flexible and less rigid. Of course, we are talking about infinitesimal differences that are probably not measurable in any significant way and any claims of difference in sound quality would be pretty dubious.

 

This may be one of those cases where it's not so wise to be an early adopter.

It's like cars... the first model year always has the most problems.

 

What are you basing that on? It's been over a decade since I took a Materials Science class but I'm pretty sure one of the points of magnesium alloys were their better damping properties.

I totally agree about any audible differences. Either alloy with proper design should work well as a tonearm but man that 1200g is really a beautiful table.

 

Vibration will depend both on stiffness and damping. It would be a complicated analysis to determine what arm material is "best." I'll bet there is trial and error involved in the design as much as analysis. Magnesium is definitely more sexy than Aluminum but how about Beryllium for real performance!

 

Engineers do that kind of analysis all the time. Materials Science is a thing. With these tonearms we are talking about alloys of these two metals so any statement is just a guess or generalization without knowing the specific alloy used Alloys of Magnesium are typically used when light weight, complexity/difficulty of machining, and resistance to vibration/damping is needed.

Aluminum alloys are used when rigidity and corrosion resistance are needed and it's not as flammable as Magnesium.

Magnesium alloys are a natural for a tonearms. As a material it has inherently better damping properties than aluminum. It's also easier to machine which lends itself to more complex shaping and the shaping of metal is ultimately the most important thing when it comes to damping.

Anyways I imagine Technics went with Magnesium on the GAE and G because it looks better on paper and finishes better.

 

First off a disclaimer -- my vibration education was for big structures and I've never had to design a tonearm.

I was thinking more along the line of tuning vibration resonance given all of the variables related to inducing vibration from both the TT self induced and listening environment induced vibrations. Since the room induced vibrations are not controllable by the designers it would be hard to design the "perfect" tonearm. The listening frequency spectrum is so broad that completely eliminating resonance in that range may be practically impossible. Certain resonances might even be beneficial so long as they don't overwhelm. It might be why some arms are found to be bright while others dull? It would be interesting to compare the G and GR tonearms on the same deck. I wouldn't be surprised if there was no difference.

My suspicion about the improved performance of the G over the old 1200s is still that Technics eliminated a lot of the induced vibration problems through the design of the platform more so than the design of the tonearm. I found that I got quite a lift in performance from my MK2 by putting it on a good isolation platform.

 

Alright, after a year of hemming and hawing I've finally pulled the trigger on the SL-1200G. I originally heard it at a local dealer, but he's since retired and closed up shop. Since I don't have a dealer in my area anymore I had to order by phone and have it shipped.

I'll report on my impressions when it arrives. For now I'm sticking with the same cartridge (Clearaudio Concept MC) so it will be somewhat of an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

Dying to hear your impressions, as I have the Concept table as well and was thinking about adding a G or a GR.