Phono Stage Comparisons Part 2. Pro-Ject Tube Box DS and EAR 834P

......this continues from http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...-tube-box-ds-phono-box-rs-and-ear834p.309091/

Tube Box DS first impressions.​

This unit came in a substantial sized Box that was so light I though it might be empty. Upon opening it I was quite unprepared for how small the DS actually is (See Picture for size comparison).

However the unit is well put together and does not feel or look cheap. The manual is very basic and easy to understand. No high Techno-speak degree needed.

I first switched this unit on, on Wednesday evening and did some casual listening on for an hour or two both on Wednesday and Thursday to allow a little burn in time before evaluation.​

Using the supplied Jumpers, which are a little fiddly, I set than Capacitance to 147 Pico Farads and Gain to 40dB. Loading was left at 47K Ohm. Note loading can be either set fixed to 47K or variable from 10-1000 Ohms. There is also a switchable subsonic filter. ​

The DS is a little less quiet than either the Phono Box RS or the M1 Vinl. There is a slight hiss or Tube rush I guess it could be called, but this is only at high volumes, volume more than 12 O'clock. I must add that this was in no way was audible over the music at any time.​

Yesterday I switched on the DS at 13:00 and at 17:30 started to listen to what it had to offer.​

Albums used for evaluation were.

Joe Sample - Carmel - Regular Pressing​

David Qualey - Soliloquy -Windham Hill​

Santana - Abraxas - Mobile Fidelity Limited Edition​

Intensive Care – Discwasher Analog Recording Pressed in Japan​

Carl Orff- Carmina Burana, Andre Previn and the London Symphony Orchestra- Hi-QSupercuts.​

My expectations of this unit were not very high (given the size of it) I expected it to sound small and not very good.​

How wrong I was​

The session opened with the Second Track off the first album (Don’t like the first track) The Piano filled the room and when the Cymbals were struck they shimmered and rang with bell like Clarity. I was stunned.​

David Qualeys guitar sounded real and the Abraxas retained the openness I described with the Phono Box RS.​

Intensive Care is an Album of Jazz Classics with Louis Bellson, Ray Brown and Paul Smith. This album has for years been my go to one when wanting to test a new piece of equipment. It sounded wonderful through the Tube Box but the highlight was waiting. Side two Track 3 Chicago opens with an explosive drum solo from Bellson that can sound downright awful to spectacular. ​

Through the Phono stage of my Amplifier it always sounded mediocre, with the Bass drum sounding like a muted Bass guitar, never a good sign. Through the DS the drums were crisp and sharp with the Bass drum sounding exactly like a Bass drum. It could never be mistaken for anything else.​

Half way through the track is a longer drum solo that the DS handled with aplomb and precision.​

The O Fortuna Chorus was also handled well by the DS but not quiet up to the Standard I experienced with the Phono Box RS. There was a little less depth and Clarity to the Choir, but only marginally so.​

The Tube Box does not have the Upper end Clarity of the RS nor the Bass Control, nor does it have the same flexibility. Tops are a little more muted and Bass a little less controlled, again it is not huge differences. Mid range is well handled rich and full.​

I truly fell in love with this little creature and preferred its overall sound and character over the M1 Vinl. ​

I like it so much that I may well end up keeping it as a second Phono stage or just to add a slightly different flavor.​

Best​

Mike​

From Left to Right. Tube Box DS, EAR 834P, Phono Box RS and M1 Vinl

 

I will be spending the day evaluating the EAR and will hopefully post a full report later this Evening

 

EAR 834P

First impressions.

I had thought that I was getting a second hand unit but in fact got a new unit that had been on display. As seen in the picture it is the Deluxe model with Chrome Face Plate and Gold Plated on/off Switch.

This Phono stage is certainly impressive to look at. It is solid heavy and has Bling. It is a Ferrari to Projects Renault (Looks wise). It is slightly noisier than the Project but only marginally so. The unit came without a Manual so I cannot comment on that however it is basically plug and play so no Manual is needed.

Setting options are MM 47K Ohm loading 200Pico Farad Capacitance with gain fixed at 55dB. MC Loading is 450 ohms and gain fixed at 72 dB.

I had spent a few hours listening (not critically) on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday to allow the unit a little burn in time. Left the unit on over night last night so that it would be fully warmed up this morning.

AM I began.

Albums used for evaluation were.
Joe Sample - Carmel - Regular Pressing
David Qualey - Soliloquy -Windham Hill
Santana - Abraxas - Mobile Fidelity Limited Edition
Intensive Care – Discwasher Analog Recording Pressed in Japan
Carl Orff- Carmina Burana, Andre Previn and the London Symphony Orchestra- Hi-QSupercuts

Protocol was the same as before first played the full album using the EAR and then replayed the same album using the Phono Box RS. Did this with each album.

As I have fully talked about the RS I will talk only about the EAR and then give my conclusions and yes I have made a choice.

So how did the EAR sound. In one word Wonderful. Rich, full bodied exciting. Every album played sounded as good as the next. I could find no fault with it. I have already described, in the Project RS Review, each album and that description remains for the EAR.

Now here is my problem. For the love of me I could not choose between them. They both sounded wonderful. I was truly stumped. I had expected,, wanted, one to really stand out above the other, but that just wasn't happening.

How could this be. The EAR costs 2.5 times the Project surely it must be better, but I wasn't hearing it. Time to bring out more albums and go into extra time surly there would be a tie breaker and clear winner.

Albums used
Michael Franks - Birchfield Nines. Warner Bros
Joe Pass and Ella Fitzgerald - Speak Low. Pablo

After Michael Franks I was no nearer than I had been before, surly Ella would come to my rescue. Put the Album on using the Project and Ella stepped into my Living room and sang to me. At last a winner. I then played her through the EAR and Ella Stepped into my living room and sang to me. Back to my dilemma. How do I pick one of these fine Phono Stages.

Time for one last album.

Gerry Murads Harmonicats - Peg O' My Heart. Columbia.

This album is full of rich complex sounds and Harmonics. It either sounds wonderful or terrible. Have never heard it sound just OK.

Well needless to say both Phono Stages handled it superbly. I was still Stuck without any clear indication of which to choose so I asked my neighbor to come up and listen for a while. Maybe he would hear something I was missing.

Choose the Album Carmel by Joe Sample to play for him because he is familiar with it. First played the Project and then the EAR. My neighbor is not an Audiophile just someone who appreciates good music. I also Covered the 2 units so that he could not see which was which.

After I changed from the RS to the EAR he only had one thing to say "Are you sure you switched them" He couldn't tell them apart either.

I have already said what I liked and disliked about the Phono Box RS.

What I liked about the EAR.
Well built
Looks amazing
Sounds Wonderful
What I disliked about the EAR
No options for changing loadings/gain Etc
Expensive

Comparing the two units. If anything the Phono Box RS is a little cleaner in the Tops than the EAR, not in an analytical kind of way just seems to be a bit more upper frequency detail, but other than that there was no way for me to tell them apart.

MY CHOICE
Project Phono Box RS.

Reasons.
Value for money
Versatile. AS many loading options, in real time, as I will ever need
Switchable Subsonic Filter
Mute Switch
Selectable Gain Settings
Sounds as good as the EAR 834P (To my ears).

For the cost of the EAR I can get the Phono Box RS a new Grado Statement Reference Cartridge and still have change for Projects alignment tool. All of which I will be getting.

I would just like to add , there is often the status appeal of owning a certain piece of gear. Project is not known to be "Hi End" in the Audiophile world so it is easy to discount as being mediocre even without listening to it.

So thanks for indulging me. It has been an interesting 10 days, sometimes frustrating but always fun.

Best

Mike

 

Excellent reviews, Mike. Congrats on your phono stage.

 

This is a more useful review than anything I've read in Stereophile in years.

You compare real-world equipment that's in roughly the same price bracket, you use a variety of source material that isn't obscure nor the standard hi-fi demo material, you steer clear of the typical review jargon, and you actually have the balls to say you can't really hear a difference when you can't, which is something few reviewers ever have the guts to say. Thanks a lot for this, I'm going to demo a Tube Box soon as I get a chance.

 

Thank you. I am sipping a large Bushmills right now. It has been a reasonably stressful and exhausting day. but a happy one

 

Cheers mate, appreciate the feed back.

 

Mike,
Thanks for all the time and work you put into this. As ClausH noted your review was better than most professional reviewers. For me, the question is how much better is the Pro-Ject RS than the Tube Box DS. Is it worth the extra $300 ($700 vs $1000)?? Either way it will be tough to get past the wife!!

 

Thank you. You are most welcome.

In my opinion it is. It is not leaps and bounds better but there is a difference. Having said that I think if you do choose the DS you wont be dissapointed. Best thing is to listen for yourself.

 

Read your review and bought Tube Box DS, it's really a nice sounding phono. Connected it with Oyaide Across 750.

 

Great review! Thanks for doing this.

 

Thanks for the this. I have the Tubebox SE II and was lusting after the EAR. Now I'm not so sure.

 

Had I not bought the Phono box RS I would without a doubt have gone with the Tube box DS. It is a wonderful piece of equipment and cheap to boot. enjoy

 

My pleasure

 

May i ask you to help me with it's setup? I use Goldring Eroica LX, so i've removed all jumpers except subsonic and in the front i've dialed it to 100.
Is my preferences correct?

Also, Pro-Ject announced Power Box DS that will be released in October, and it's recomended to give clean power to Tube Box, what do you think of that?

 

I have already ordered the Power supply for the RS as it is my belief that a good Power supply is essential. Cant help you with the set up as I dont know the cartridge, sorry about that. Best is to listen and what sounds best is the best.

 

Great stuff. Really got me considering the RS now!
I think Graham Slee is out just due to the EXP's limited loading options (and doubling of price!).
Thanks so much for sharing.

 

Hi everyone,
I wanted to share a big upgrade I made to my Tube Box DS: I replaced the power supply with a Teddy Pardo unit. Cost about $350, and well worth it. Teddy Pardo makes excellent stuff. I also replaced the fuse with an upgraded one.

Next I want to try different tubes. Has anyone done this?

 

SurgeTO, can you tell more which one of Teddy Pardo did you use, because Pro-Ject have 18v power, and Teddy Pardo have nothing more than 12V.
Also what fuse have you replaced and to what?

 

That is a good question. How is his Powers supply better than Projects?

 

Hello,

I read your article about the phono prestages, I am currently looking for the Project RS. You are writing in your post that they will improve the power supply. Do you know if they already did that, how can this power supply be recognized?

You also wrote this:
I have already ordered the Power supply for the RS as it is my belief that a good Power supply is essential. Cant help you with the set up as I dont know the cartridge, sorry about that. Best is to listen and what sounds best is the best.

Did you ordered a separate (new and better?) power supply for the RS? From Pro-Ject or? Many thanks, Good review, was very helpfull!

Kind regards,

Jenssen

 

The power Supply for the RS is still not available but should be within a short while, and yes it will be from Project.

When last I was in Contact with Project Heinz Lichteneger said that the Power Supply gives a Blacker Cleaner Background IE less electrical noise.

 

This is from Projects Web Site.

POWER BOX RS PHONO
(available Q1/2014) SRP € 399,00
Linear power supply for Phono Box RS
• High filtration capacity • Precise voltage regulation • Surge protection • Low noise components for ultimate sound performance • Output: 2x 18V / 500mA • Power Box RS Phono increases power of Phono Box RS • Silver or black

 

I have just sent of an email to Project about the Power supplies availability. As soon as I get an answer I will post it.

Best

 

G'day mate, very nice reviews, many thanks. I'm really to wish phono stages would standardise at 100 picofarads input capacitance as 200 picofarads can be a real hindrance when interconnect cable and tonearm wiring capacitance are added to give an'overall' capacitance value.

One could easily end up with 350 picofarads or more input capacitance 'seen' by the phono cartridge, a real limitation with quite a few moving magnet cartridges. At least with 100 picofarads, one can always easily 'add' capacitance if needed to optimise capacitance loading (capacitors on the input jacks for example) , but not the reverse easily ! Regards, Felix.