Phono stages that are 'special'.

G’day all, years ago in a DIY project book I have, it was mentioned that circuits for phono stages are a ‘demanding’ application. Yes I’d agree with that. When I think back over the many DIY and other phono stages that I’ve either built or used, I can think of varying quality all the way from ‘very ordinary to utterly superb’.

As it stands two of my three favourite moving magnet cartridge phono stages are DIY designs, the ESP P06/P99 sub bass filter combination and the intriguing VSPS. The only non-DIY phono stage that I regard highly is my all FET ANT Kora 3T SE. That is a simply amazing phono stage with such a musical/easy going/gentle sound. It’s wonderful to listen to, and I never tire of it. It is interesting how all these phono stages have a subtly different ‘sound’ to each other, yet they are all wonderful to listen to.

The DIY ESP P06/P99 is incredibly clean yet neutral and musical, and my bread-boarded VSPS sounds incredibly nice for a simple full feedback op amp design. Why it sounds so agreeable is a complete mystery to me, as another very similar op amp based design I had built in the past sounds cold and sterile and generally 'yuk' in comparison….a bit like eating cardboard!

I have to admit that I think of my preferred phono stages as being closer to musical instruments rather than just a collection of electronic components! It is all a bit mysterious, but it is an endearing mystery! Why do others love their preferred phono stages? Regards, Felix.

 

I have a prototype of the Phonomena II, which has some alternate parts that were going out of production. It is a bit more sensitive to vibration. I find it doesn’t impart any particular sound, but it does separate out the sounds better than others I have had a chance to try.

It is a discreet dual mono circuit, and uses many surface mount resistors and capacitors. The capacitance was a bit high, and I wanted to work with some unusual loadings, so the designer altered the capacitance to 67pF or 134pF with a native 100K and 61.5K loading for MMs.

 

G'day mate, yes that is a very fine phono stage! Regards, Felix.

 

Thanks. Seemingly no penalty for using super inexpensive parts. I do not see surface mount parts in hi-fi, but usually other technologies. Maybe the tolerances are good?

 

I own a Bryston BP 1.5 phono box partly because i have the Bryston BP-26 which can share the power supply with the BP 1.5 phono box. I use it with a Rega P5/Benz Glider. My main listening setup.

In addition I have an Audio Research SP-15 with a nice three tube phono stage. (bought used) I keep it around for the phono stage. It takes an hour or so for it to sound good (One of the few items I leave off most of the time) Use it with a Kuzma Stabi/Stogi S Dynavector 17D3.

Then I have an Audio Research PH-2 (also bought used) It is a fully balanced device, with balanced inputs and outputs. I am not using it currently, but keep it around for it's coolness.

 

I have owned and listened to several over the years. Neutral is key for me as I soon get tired of an imparted coloration. One that I never seem to part with is the MM one built into the Belles OCM 55 preamplifier (model with the external transformer). It is vintage now and uses some rather expensive parts, so re-cap or re-build can be very costly, but I may just do it. A modern 'tubed one' that I like is in the Copland CTA 301 MKii preamplifier, although it tends toward an overly polished smooth sound.

 

The best I've yet to own is the all-tube phono stage in my Fisher 400, which was modded for a flatter frequency response.

In its stock form, there is a boost in the upper bass region, giving it a bit of a boomy sound like an old hifi console. My tech changed a few caps or something and now the bass boom is gone and it has wonderfully balanced clarity, resolution, and deeeep, wide soundstage.

 

I like my current phonostage-a Viva Fono-which is a tube-based unit with a built in step up transformer. This is the best I've had in my system, though I admit that prior to owning that phonostage, I did not own any sort of serious contender (Linn Linto, the built in phonostage of a Levinson No. 32 preamp, built-in phonostage to a Coda preamp).

I have heard many great sounding systems, although it is hard to say what the phonostage contributed to the overall sound. I even heard a setup with the Audionote M-10 phonostage which has a crazy multitude of big boxes (power supplies) and a crazy price to match. Another setup that delivered exceptional sound had a Lyra Connoisseur phonostage.

 

Is this comment based on what you currently own or a general opinion? Felix.....there's some outstanding phono stages currently being produced at several price points and they're not all DIY! Seems you're opinions can be rather biased at times and are always based on what "you" own and/or have experience with.

 

I really liked the sound of the Viva gear I've heard.

 

Right now, I'm using a commercial implementation of an LCR phono stage- but these designs have long had currency in the DIY market. The improvement over another highly regarded phono stage that I used for a number of years is marked: far more spatial information, much better localization of specific instruments in space, and a sort of uncanny ability to let you hear differences in loudness and softness of in the individual instruments, rather than simply the 'gross' dynamics of the recording at large. The device uses old telephony tubes that are relatively cheap, compared to a lot of NOS 'small triode' types; the ability to set loading to the correct impedance with more, smaller incremental step adjustments must have something to do with it as well. The transformers here are key, I think. Since you are a handy MoFo, Felix, you might consider exploring this avenue. (FWIW, someone i know with this unit bypassed the elaborate switches to hardwire the loading adjustment, and not surprisingly, claims a sonic improvement).

 

My preference is a Loesch designed or inspired phono stage of which I have heard several implementations - both stages and pres. Most utilize the Western Electric 417a tube that I find to work very well in a phono stage. My introduction to Arthur Loesch's design was with the Supratek Syrah preamp and while the line stage sounded just OK, the phono stage was outstanding in my system and it outperformed a Sonic Frontiers SFP signature (a bit sterile), a Joule Electra OPS connected to a LS100 mk.111 (nice, smooth but I could never get rid of the tube hiss). The Syrah's phono stage was silent with all the gain I wanted for MC carts (through J-FET's) and the sound was controlled, tight, analytical yet warm with the best bass I'd heard to that point.

I next tried a dedicated Loesch preamp with the Joule Electra line stage and then an Emotive Audio Erato (great design using the 27 tube) and finally an Emotive Audio Sira but was never quite satisfied with the combos so I went looking for a preamp with phono stage and found a James Burgess 'Full Functon' pre that also used a Loesch-inspired phono stage. That's the cat meow in my system and still offers all the sweet sound and adjustability of the Supratek but has the better line stage IMO.

 

I like my BHL kit, but then it is not standard, a very different beast than what it started life as with the output caps each costing 50% more that the kit Itself.

The sound is very different also. I compared it to an EAR Clone and while the tube based EAR Clone was more exciting with It's very forward presentation, it didn't have the refinement, natural tones and layers of detail that my BHL phono stage had/has. The comparison is based on these in my own system, so in a different system things may be different.

No doubt it would not hold a candle to some of the better stages out there, but it works well in my system
Would love to try better stages in my system, but I don't get out a lot.

 

on the DIY side, I really liked the Audio Sector Phono Stage - it's essentially a hyper tweak version of the 47 Labs Phonocube. The Audio Sector version has a shunt power suppy, OPA627 op-amps, and a whole slew of expensive passive parts (resistors and capacitors).
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/audio-sector/151938-phono-stage.html

Of course it's only for low output MCs, but it was one of the most transparent and detailed phono stages I've ever heard. I built mine using Rel Teflon and Polysterene caps instead of the suggested V-Caps.

For commercial gear, the Threshold FET-10/PC still has a special place in my heart. Very flexible, and still a great sound even considering the age.

I'm currently rolling with an older Quicksilver full-function preamplifier - 12AX7 coupled to a 12FQ7 output - and I'm quite happy with the sound - to the point where I'm in no hurry to upgrade. Someday I'll go for separates - perhaps a TVC linestage with a EAR 834P or ???

 

Graham Slee.

 

Graham Slee make some very nice phono stages.

 

I can't see Peter's pics in that thread, are the Vcaps or in your case the Rel caps in a RIAA section or are they coupling?

 

Feedback, I believe.

 

ARC SP-10 MKII

 

OK, I'm getting a little idea on the circuit.

But not much

Main thing is you like how it sounds, Rel make nice caps too.

 

er.....Linn Linto - 16 years old and still flawless

 

I really like my Jolida JD9. I rolled the tubes, changed the opamps to BB OPA627's. Big difference vs stock.

 

You changed the front end op-amp (AD797) too?

 

Forgot that the images will only populate for DIY Audio members - it's a great site, btw.

alternative photo here:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_WeC7--3HfTI/TB9fmnUoP_I/AAAAAAAAAN4/l0UtXs0SPqM/s1600/phono1.jpg

 

This is as good a place to ask as any...if it should be elsewhere please move. Is there a general rule about comparable price between phono stage and turntable/cart/arm set up? After an upgrade at amp (to which some of you may have contributed to that thread), I am left with a finite amount of money for a turntable/phono stage. I would like to begin my vinyl pursuits, pronto. Is a $1,000 phono stage overkill for a $2,000 dollar turntable? I would like to buy a better table but limited funds demand this. The short of it $3,000 left to spend. What is the best allocation for both components?