Pink Floyd The Wall, my shoot-out

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Dave, Jun 21, 2006.

  1. So, if I understand this correctly, the C2K 36183 silver-faced discs with "DIDP 020204" and "DIDP 020205" on the label immediately underneath the catalog numbers are the original Canadian masterings? This is the so-called Reissue on pinkfloydcd.com and the same mastering as the black-face next to the Canadian flag?

    Is it also correct that the mastering for the CBS/Columbia for US - 1st issue C2K36183 and the CBS/Columbia for Canada - C2K36183 (silver and black) are the same?
  2. Dave,

    I think I misunderstood you the first time around.

    The top picture you provided is the first U.S. C2k 36183 pressing and the bottom picture is the first Canadian C2K 36183 pressing. Correct?
  3. ffracer

    ffracer Forum Resident

    1. Yes. CBS/Columbia imported CDs initially in Canada from CBS/Sony Japan and soon after, Sony DADC USA. The imported CDs are the same labels as the US discs. Only the inserts are Canadian. The Cinram blackface pressing came later and may be a different master. It may be the same. I have a David Gilmour S/T bought in 1990 in Ontario that has Canadian inserts & cat #, but a bone-stock US DADC CD inside with a US cat no.

    2. It is the same disc from the same runs.

    The pinkfloyedscanz.com website is really neat and I'm glad he has done this, but it is confusing to assume country of mfg is the same as country of release.
  4. ffracer

    ffracer Forum Resident

    The picture is a little deceiving.

    The top one is actually a rare, but later issue, pressed in Japan by Denon pressing for US Columbia. It is not the original CBS/Sony made in Japan or DADC USA. It does not have the DIDP number on the label or the matrix. I have a Boston S/T CD like this. CBS used Denon Japan and JVC Japan to do spot fills when DADC USA was maxed out.

    The bottom one is identical to the first US DADC pressing and Canadian imported (from DADC USA) pressing, except it has the bar code in the matrix and no "Digital Audio Disc Corp." pressed in the hub. Should be the same as it has the same DIDP number. The CD in the picture is at least early 90s.

    DIDX/DIDY/DIDP/DIDC was Sony's way of identifying a master internally. Most Sony discs have them in the matrix, instead of the cat#, except early CDs made at Sony Pitman, NJ.
  5. Great info. Much appreciated! :righton:
  6. ffracer,

    If you (or anybody else) would be so kind to shed some light as to where my recent acquisition of a Silverface C2K 36183 might fall within your sequencing above.

    Disc 1 has "CMU P 23" stamped on the inner ring.
    There is no matrix info.
    Printed label reads:
    CK 35184
    C2K 36183
    DIDP 20204

    Disc 2 has "CMU P 23" stamped on the inner ring.
    Matrix info is "DIDP-20205 15 *** ***** and a barcode.
    Printed label reads:
    CK 36185
    C2K36183
    DIDP 20205

    Is this the "Silverface - Made in USA by Sony DADC with barcode in matrix band" referenced above?

    Thanks.
  7. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    Location:
    Brighton, England
    My UK original doesn't mention Swindon in the matrix:

    Disc 1: CDP 746036-2 @ 2 : 5+10+
    Disc 2: CDP 746037-2 @ 2+7 + 10

    These look more like West German SONOPRESS codes to me but the disc states "Made In the UK" - is that a SWINDON code?

    So which of these is my other set:

    Made in Japan printed around bottom edge but has US inserts.

    Disc 1: CK - 36184 1A1 6X
    Disc 2: CK - 36185 1A4 6Y

    Looks exactly like this:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Has it been mentioned yet that the UK original has a booklet whereas the US ones have a foldout which is copied from the dismantled booklet - you can even see the rusty staple holes if you look closely!
  8. Is There Anybody Out There?
  9. dbz

    dbz Bolinhead.

    Location:
    Live At Leeds (UK)
    Well I have managed to listen to the Japanese first press 50-DP. which I believe is the father of all these(US/Canadian) pressings.

    It is a little bit "glossy", almost artificial, like it was done to sound impressive. I think Roland made some good points about the UK Harvest sounding more natural, certainly in the vocal dept. I agree 100 % with him. The Japan discs have a strong whiff of.., I don't know, is that smiley EQ?.

    The UK harvest doesn't have that glossy sheen present and seems to have a much more natural sound(certainly the instruments are nicely separated out and are easily identifiable, with a good soundstage without colouration of any kind).

    They are both great sounding discs , there is no denying this, but I would have to vote with the Silver Harvest(which does have swindon in the matrix, in my case). In fact, the more I think about it, the wider the differences.

    The other thing of course is where the indexed /song chapters are. Young lust was mentioned as a difference but so too is Comfortably Numb, with the USA one starting with the Click at 0.01 sec. The UK actually starts with the last vocal part of "Is there anybody out there?", and is of course perfectly "CLICKLESS"( for anyone wanting to try and listen for the clicks on the UK disc you need to add 10 or 11 seconds to the times given previously because of the different indexes)

    Finally, they seem to have the same volume-to these ears at least.
  10. dcathro

    dcathro Well-Known Member

    I have 2 verions of this:

    The UK Harvest (Swindon) Silver Face, and the Japan for UK Harvest Black Face (TO).

    To my ears there is quite a difference between the Black (TO) and Silver Faced Harvest discs. The Black Face sounds like a straight up transfer from tape to Sony 1610 with no other processing, whilst the Silver Face sounds more compressed and slightly digital. The Black Face has AAD written on it, whilst the Silver Face had had this removed. Usually with EMI, this means ADD and they have digitally processed the disc at 48K before dithering down to 44.1K.

    The Black Face is just stunning to my ears, whist the Silver Face is just Fair!

    I had the Doug Sax remaster, but got rid of it as it was appalling.

    Cheers

    David
  11. ffracer

    ffracer Forum Resident

    This is actually a later (mid-90s) Sony SDM Pitman, NJ pressing. Sony SDM (Sony Disc Mfg) in Pitman, NJ USA made CDs that were very different looking than all their other plants, which made CDs nearly identical to DADC USA around the world. Pitman discs did not use the DIDX/DIDP master system.

    Sometime in the 90s, Sony changed the lines in the Pitman plant to be the same as all the other DADC plants. So, the Pitman CDs look identical to DADC discs now, just a different IFPI number. They also started using the DIDP/DIDX master number system. At some point, they dropped the "CMU" or "P xx" in the spindle plastic.

    Other than the IPPI code in the plastic and matrix and the label stating the country of mfg, Sony DADC mfg'd discs are almost identical around the world.
  12. ffracer

    ffracer Forum Resident

    Mal,

    This is a Silverface - Made in Japan by Nippon Columbia/Denon - had NO DIDP-10204 or DIDP-10205 in the matrix or label - pretty rare -

    Ironic, as Nippon Columbia (Denon) was the Japan arm of the old UK Columbia (EMI), pressing a disc for US Columbia (Sony). At one time, these were all the same company!

    The UK disc is a EMI Swindon pressed disc. I have it. The early Swindon CDs did not have 'Swindon" in the matrix.
  13. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    Location:
    Brighton, England
    Thanks racer :bone:

    :righton:
  14. markl

    markl New Member

    Location:
    cyberspace
  15. dbz

    dbz Bolinhead.

    Location:
    Live At Leeds (UK)
    So we have a new forum favourite? Black faced japan issue right?
  16. JeffN727

    JeffN727 Active Member

    I have what is apparently the Doug Sax 1994 remaster (according to the inner booklet).
    CDP7243 & 31243 2 9
    I'm very confused. It says Capitol on the discs, but Harvest Capitol on the jewel box spline. (When did this one switch from Columbia to Capitol?)

    I bought this new 2 years ago, and it sounds great to my ears, but I've never had another CD version of this album. I never knew that there were so many versions.

    I just happened to spin my vinyl version of this the other day. I bought that back in March of 1980. Sounds great, but my copy has always been kind of noisy. Before I bought this CD, I only had this on vinyl.

    Attached Files:

  17. Thanks, ffracer. So what is the consensus around here, is the mastering for this pressing the same or inferior to the first issue C2K's?
  18. ffracer

    ffracer Forum Resident

    EMI picked up the rights in 1994 from Sony in the markets that EMI/Harvest didn't have for WYWH, Animals, The Wall, & The Final Cut. these are Capitol labeled in the US with "Harvest" added for nostalgia.

    Kinda wierd for those like me who bought the EMI imports because the booklets were better. These are the "remasters" for the markets EMI had in the first place, but are new to us over here.
  19. There is also the black-faced WG Harvest version (Sonopress). It is different from the early JPN Harvest and the UK Harvest.

    Roland
  20. musicalbeds

    musicalbeds Strange but not a stranger

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Mal;
    It's not a "new" favourite...I've been touting it all along, check this thread. ;)
  21. DeeJayBump

    DeeJayBump Member

    Location:
    AZ, US
  22. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    Location:
    Brighton, England
    I didn't say that ;)

    Anyway, I am a little confused - I thought the UK original was preferred over the original forum favourite which was the C2K edition. Now people are saying the Japanese-for-the-UK (JFTUK) blackface edition is better? What about the silverface JFTUK? Or the UK Swindon - are these all from different mastering?

    :confused:
  23. fortherecord

    fortherecord Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    I think the C2K is a bit more dynamic than the Japanese black faced Harvest for UK, which is warmer, but also lower in volume. That said, the C2K is also not overly loud, just less warm and possibly more digital sounding.
  24. Jerry

    Jerry Grateful Gort Staff

    Location:
    Connecticut
    Here's one you probably haven't seen! Thanks to my friend Linus in Oz, who gave this to me recently. I'm looking for a C2K so I can compare sound, but this was most likely pressed from an early JP master. It was made by Disctronics in Australia, where Linus worked around the time cds were first being manufactured. Thanks Linus, you're the best! :wave:

    Attached Files:

  25. The following CD versions all derive from the same basic mastering:

    a) Japan (for UK) black-faced silver lettering Harvest
    b) West Germany black-faced white lettering Harvest (Sonopress)
    c) UK silver-faced black lettering Harvest (Swindon)
    d) Holland silver-faced black lettering Harvest

    c) and d) are 100% identical and sound exactly the same. There are minor differences in sound between a), b, and c/d), but these differences are not very big. In the digital domain, when adjusted for level differences, these mastering digitally cancel out (like Andreas posted).

    All these versions sound better than the Columbia/CBS versions in my opinion (and any of the remasters or the MFSL).

    I really like my WG version. It has peak levels around 90% or 95%, where the Japanese version has peak levels of around 50%.

    Any of these versions is great to have.

    One thing I noticed is that the various Harvest versions seem to sound quite a bit different from CD player to CD player. Maybe it has to do with the fact that some of them are silver faced where others are black faced. Not sure if this makes sense, but maybe that makes a difference for some players.
    compactaudio likes this.

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