Pioneer CD Recorder PDR-509: Question

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Thesmellofvinyl, Apr 2, 2009.

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  1. Thesmellofvinyl

    Thesmellofvinyl Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Cohoes, NY USA
    There's a thread on this in the archives but nothing on this: Does this machine make an exact copy of a CD, a la EAC, or does the bit rate change?
     
  2. MacGyver

    MacGyver Forum Resident

    Location:
    IRRIGON, OR. U.S.
    [​IMG]


    not a bad looking deck, but as with any home audio CD recorder, you have to live with SCMS. my recommendation is to look into PRO-DAW:


    [​IMG]

    with one of these, or a newer model, attached to one of your amplifiers' recording loops, you can freely record anything running through your system in real time, producing a transparent digital recording, free of SCMS, that you can put directly to CD-RW and cart over to your PC and perform final adjustments upon with a program such as this:


    [​IMG]

    from that, you can compile onto a CD-R recorded with a high-quality CD writer at 8x or slower to ensure the widest degree of compatibility with CD players...
     
  3. John Carsell

    John Carsell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northwest Illinois
    I've had a Pioneer PDR-509 since 2000 and I think it makes excellent copies.

    I use EAC on the computer as well as it's faster since the 509 will only go 1:1 real time, but the 509 is also great in the analog stage for needledroppin'.
     
  4. I use mine almost exclusively for needle drops, and it has worked flawlessly.

    I do use it for the occasional CD dub via he optical or coax inputs, and while I do not use EAC or have any other means to determine if the results are bit accurate, I have never heard anything that would lead me to think that anything untoward was going on.

    I spend too much time on a computer as is, so I actually enjoy using it to do my needle drops.

    Brian
     
  5. Thesmellofvinyl

    Thesmellofvinyl Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Cohoes, NY USA
    I have one, too, and always assumed it was bit-accurate (exact) but the question came up in my mind the other day. I looked around the web for a bit before posting here. I also hear excellent results. Still, I'm curious about the bit rate. Thanks for the replies, folks.
     
  6. Serenity Now

    Serenity Now Forum Resident

    Location:
    Yorks, UK
    I've had a PDR-509 for many years. It makes great copies and is great for needledrops. Only snag is it has always been very fussy with discs. If it doesn't refuse most pc burned cdrs it takes ages to recognise them (often after some unhealthy grating noises). It seems to have got worse over the years and now sometimes refuses original CDs. Last month I wasted 70 mins transferring something in realtime only get a 'Disc error' before finalising!
     
  7. +1, although what I found when I first bought the 509 8 or 9 years ago was that it did not like certain discs.

    At that time, it was Memorex. It would appear to record properly, but on playback there were section of massive skipping, static sounds, etc. I called Pioneer (amazing that at that time, they actually had a US based support center with techs that actually knew the product!), and w/o prompting he said "Memorex Discs?". Anyway, he suggested I try TDK, which I did and have been 100% problem free since then.

    YMMV, and if you look around, most users of consumer CDR decks will have had disc issues at one time or another with one brand or another.

    Another nice feature was that, since there are analog, coax, and optical inputs, you can actually use it as a DAC for music streaming. At one time I was using the 509 as a DAC for my Apple Express. I stream music to my 2 Channel system via the Express, ran the optical out to the 509, and put it in Monitor mode. Viola, no outboard DAC required.

    One suggestion for needle drops:

    I find that the automatic track numbering does not always work with vinyl. I am guessing that the level of noise between tracks trips up the track numbering. So, I use manual track numbering, which works flawlessly, although you do have to do it in real time. And the resulting discs, when I rip them to iTunes are usually recognized properly (Artist, Album, Track names). I won't do a deep dive into that in this thread, as there are other threads that talk about it, but I thought it was pretty cool the 1st time I ripped a needle drop CD and all the tags came up automatically.

    Brian
     
  8. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Try Maxell, Sony, or MAM-A Silver Music CD-R discs. There are fewer quality options available for Music CD-R media.
     
  9. Thesmellofvinyl

    Thesmellofvinyl Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Cohoes, NY USA
    I would think that is impossible. If it is possible, would someone who knows explain how? And if anyone knows the answer to the original question..?
     
  10. I would have thought that too until I saw it happen with my own eyes, but it is in fact not impossible at all.

    iTunes uses Gracenotes to identify albums. From discussion in various other threads, it looks at several factors, including the # of tracks, track timing, overall length of the disc, average track timings, and I suppose a thousand other things.

    Of course, at some point, a given album will have to have been entered manually into the Gracenotes database, but once it is there, anyone that rips that disc to iTunes will find that it is usually correctly ID'd.

    Note: I may or may not have correctly used the term "tags". What I am referring to is iTunes/Gracenotes ability to ID the artist, album, and track names.

    Brian
     
  11. GreenDrazi

    GreenDrazi Truth is beauty

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    I don’t know this particular model, but most of them, and I would say it’s safe to assume this too, do not perform a function similar to the “secure mode” of EAC, which reads every audio sector at least twice and then when errors are found, many more times in an attempt to resolve them. Instead, they act in similar fashion to “burst” mode, although this mode can still yield a bit perfect disc.
     
  12. bobdog

    bobdog Forum Resident

    My 509 has never burned a coaster. It has worked flawlessly with every brand of Music CDR I have fed it. I mostly use it for needledrops these days because of the lack of Music media and the lack of my time. My understanding is and has always been that it makes bit perfect copies. The needle drops sound great in the car which is really their only use to me.
     
  13. Thesmellofvinyl

    Thesmellofvinyl Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Cohoes, NY USA
    I read the above as meaning you transferred an analog signal from an LP to a CDR and then some software read that CDR and then identified the song titles of the now-digitized tracks. That is what I think is not possible. Is that what you have seen happen?

    Interesting, thank you.
     
  14. Dam

    Dam Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    I too have the PDR-509, and whilst it does make nice sounding copies, it is not bit-accurate according to EAC peak levels.
     
  15. stephen@hennefer

    stephen@hennefer New Member

    Location:
    UK Horwich
    Hi

    I've used a Pioneer PDR 609 to do my needledrop since 2003 and it's still going strong, fantastic copies of vinyl.

    As for copying CDs I use EAC, I find that copy sounds better than through the digital input of the PDr609. I've concluded, probably wrongly, that error correction in the source CDP is the cause. Don't suppose the cause really matter though.

    The other advantage is I can use CD-Rs something the 609 has never accepted.
     
  16. That is precisely what I mean.

    You need to read up on Gracenotes, which is what is used by iTunes and other rippers.

    http://www.gracenote.com/business_solutions/music_id/

    There is no magic here, and as I said, there are several threads at SHF that discuss the subject.

    One caveat. It will only work if you needle drop the entire LP. If you burn a custom comp of tracks from different sources, it does not work.

    Brian
     
  17. Thesmellofvinyl

    Thesmellofvinyl Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Cohoes, NY USA
    That would make sense, given the way you described how the software works.

    Man, that's an impressive feature.

    ...and now I've clicked that link. In case anyone else was in the dark, as I was:

    Cool. Thanks, BGLeduc! Gracenotes suggests it could work on a compilation, too, but that's not your experience, eh?
     
  18. Obtuse1

    Obtuse1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    I have a 509 (replaced a 555 with a bad drive). Quick and painless way to do needledrops. I've also used it to copy CDs (via optical in) that my computer refused to copy or had issues with, or to get a playable copy of a damaged CD (using whichever player could handle the disc best....sometimes needing more than one player).

    As for media, I've been using a Philips CD-RW I originally bought 10 years ago with the 555 (still working after hundreds of recordings), and a couple of TDK CD-RW's (starting to have issues after many, many uses).

    Once it's on CD-RW I burn it to CD-R on my computer,and reuse the CD-RW. I don't even bother with (more expensive...especially if you goof one up) Music CD-R's anymore.
     
  19. Well, I am not sure it would work under all circumstances. but I can think of two circumstances where it should work.

    One obviously would be if it were a commercially available comp and were already in the database. The other would be if you made a custom comp, manually entered in all the tags and then uploaded it to Gracenotes. In that case, if anyone else created the same comp, it would be there.

    Until someone uploaded the data, I am not sure how it could ID a custom comp that you made. That would, I would think, require that it could ID individual songs, which I am not sure about. Not saying it can't, but if it does, I would be even more impressed with the service than I already am.

    Another thing that I found cool was that it was able to ID a fairly obscure 4 song EP of "Missing Persons". That means that someone out there somewhere had already done a needle drop and uploaded the data to Gracenotes.

    No doubt that it is a very cool service. In my case it has worked 100% of the time I have ripped a needle drop, but them my tastes in music are not too far from what would pass for mainstream.

    Brian
     
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