Pioneer CLD-D701 Laserdisc question

I have an older Pioneer Laserdisc player that I bought many years ago, before the world of DVD's. It is like new, and it plays great, and I have a small collection of Lasers that I play time to time. I paid a good bit of money for it, so I don't want to sell it, as I would get next to nothing for it. I am also holding on to it, because I often find Lasers for just a few bucks at the local record store or at flea markets, or even on line, so my collection keeps getting bigger.

I recently came across a Pioneer CLD-D701 at a local upscale audio store here in the Akron, Ohio area. They are asking $95 for it. It of course it used, but the store is very reputable. I know it is in tip-top shape in and out. I looked on E-bay and there are a couple that are kind of beat up, and questionable on the playing side. I would not mind upscaling, as my Pioneer player has an RCA video out only, with only the RCA analog jacks for audio. The CLD-D701 has the S-video and the optical output. I am wondering if I could make a deal and get the CLD-701 player, as the S-video would be a better picture, and the fiber optic output would be a better sound. My question is, is the output 5.1 for AC-3 encoded lasers? I have no idea myself.

Some folks think I am crazy for even still embracing old technology, but when I first saw a laser player, I was awestruck. When I finally made the switch from tape to laser, I think I rented every video disc the local shop had (and they had a lot at the time). I still like the format of the lasers - pure movie, not previews, no menus, no extras - just the movie, thank you very much.

Thanks forum!

Blue Nile Fan.

 

Unless that CLD-D701 has been modified, it does not have the AC-3 output. The CLD-D704 was manufactured with the necessary output to be used with a demodulator for Dolby Digital. I believe modifying the player isn't easy but unless I am mistaken, it is possible. Here is a page that suggests modifying the subsequent CLD-D702 can be done:

http://www.laaudiofile.com/ac3mod.html

The CLD-D701 was certainly considered good for its time, but the CLD-D704 is one of the few players worth holding out for, it is better in all respects. I am not sure how the CLD-D702 and CLD-D703 players compare. Personally, I would get a D704 or better or nothing at this time.

Chris

 

Not so when it comes to laserdisc... can't speak to the 701 specifically, but almost all LD players yield a better picture via composite connections... it is also dependent on your TV and the comb filter therein.

Maybe Rachael Bee will chime in with further detail on this.

The only way to tell for sure is to do a comparison... @ $95, it's not a big gamble... but if you're considering the 701 largely to access the S-VHS and digital audio connections, these probably will not yield discernible improvements.

Again, I dunno about the 701, but its cousins 703 and 704 are reputed to deliver video that's a discernible cut above many others.

Happy hunting.

 

One nice thing about the 701 is you can use the shuttle to do frame by frame viewing on CLV discs (not just CAV.) Mine has a dodgy drawer (probably a faulty relay) that I've never investigated fixing (I rarely spin my LDs these days.)

 

The S-video output on a CLD-701 should be duct-taped over! Using it will guarantee an inferior picture. The notch or comb filter in it is patentedly inferior by today's standards. For that matter, the filter is awful by even mid-90's standards.

Laserdisc video is natively composite format. To get S-video output, some kind of notch or comb filter has to be onboard to covert composite to S-video. With anything but the most expensive models, it's a mediocre comb filter.

The 701 is a late 80's model and a major cut below later players. It also has a reputation for unreliability. 1995's budjet player, CLD-S104, has a better pic than a 701.

Anybody looking for an LD player should buy a '94 or later player. The only exception would be if you could get your hands on a CLD-95 or CLD-97, IMO. Even with those top-of-the-line players of the early 90's, the S-video output may not be useful. The 95's S-video output is about as poor as the 701's. The 2-D comb filter in the 97 might be useful if you have a set with a poor comb filter...? Even the 3-D comb in the CLD-99 is marginally usful these days. The 3-D comb filter in my 1998, 32", Sony XBR250 set just smokes the 99's comb.

LD is all about composite video unless you get a super, hi-end player like the Japanese Pioneer LD-S9, HLD-X9, or Runco LJ-I or II.

 

Let me stress a point about the AC-3 encoding on AC3 laserdiscs:
It is NOT compatable with most/all current home theatre receivers and processors.
It will NOT work on the same digital audio input you would use to connect a DVD player to your system.
While Dolby Digital and AC-3 are basically the same thing, unlike dvd, the LD format carries the 5.1 audio signal out of the laserdisc player on a radio frequency, which must be de-modulated before it goes into the digital input on a modern receiver.
Laserdisc ac-3 should be more correctly identified as "AC-3 (rf)"
Some older receivers/processors, especially Pioneers, will have a specific input jack labeled AC-3 (rf) : Most/all manufacturers stopped adding this feature to their components about five years ago.
My Adcom GTP-760 has a switch on the back where one of the digital inputs can be toggled for either Dolby Digital (dvd) OR AC3RF (laserdisc)
Outboard rf demodulators are available used, (yet another component!) but this will add another $50 or $100 to the cost of your project.
Do you have enough AC-3 lasers to justify the cost?
Remember that ac3 came along only at the tail end of the laserdisc formats life, so relatively few LD's have it.
I have a huge LD collection, and I'd say less than 5 per cent of them have AC-3 soundtracks.

 

There are about 1000 AC-3 LD's. Most, if not all, are available as DVD's. I have many AC-3 LD's where the PCM track is just fundamentally better anyway.

 

Yeah, AC-3 may have been at the end of the format's life, but it had a good 4 years on LD (Clear and Present Danger being the first) before the format died for good.

 

At one time I had hundreds of LDs...Sold most of them off to the superior DVD. Oddly enought I kept the The Beach Boys "An American Band" which oddly enough has an AC-3 soundtrack. I bet it sounds better than my DVD! It's a shame I can't hear it...

 

Yes, I have around 1400 LD's, and getting more all the time, and most are not in AC-3 sound but the supirior PCM sound or the older analog track. Too many LDs sounds better than the DVD it makes me mad

 

A compression issue, no doubt. That's the one drawback of multi-channel DVD(doubtful it makes much difference with mono or basic stereo tracks, as with older films and music films/vids). As I've said here before, the Dolby Surround track of STOP MAKING SENSE is sonically superior and more impressive than anything on the DVD, despite the 5.1 and stereo remixes. It's not alone in that. For that reason, the improvement of overall video quality is DVD's main draw, but with the better formats already out there or on the way, maybe sound quality will improve as well.

 

The frame buffer was a big deal at the time.

My CLD-D701 eats CD's.

 

The NTSC color composite video signal has to go through a comb filter either in the LD player or in the TV set. You choose composite over S-Video not because LD is natively composite, but because the LD player's comb filter is inferior to the TV's in this case. You can easily see the difference.

 

My 701 eats CDs too, and has had to be repaired twice. Pretty good video.

I thought about RF/AC-3 mods, but decided I didn't have enough lasers with AC-3 to make it worthwhile.

 

When the players first went from being LD only to Combi, CD too, most of 'em had problems playing CD's. My first Combi player was the Elite CLD-52. It never ate CD's but it skipped on about 25% of the CD's I ever put in it. The 52 was from that same era....8-ease....

 

From personal experience, I can echo the sentiments about the S-Video output: it's junk. Composite out looks distinctly better.

Yes they do. I disagree that it is a compression issue. The difference is usually the result of No Noise and other signal processing. No matter the format, the situation won't improve unless the audio transfer standards improve. Today I regularly see far superior new video transfers, often from superior sources, but hear the reverse, degraded, low res, over processed and bland sound. Progress has drastically shifted to picture quality and gone backwards with sound.

 

I love the color on my 703, and when I used to have a receiver with an AC-3 input (a Pioneer) I enjoyed the 5.1 sound on Heat and The Phantom. Hard to watch most LDs now, though, for two reasons: video noise (I'm aware that the later Elite players do very well in this department) and loss of resolution for non-anamorphic letterboxed titles. Rachael, do you know how many anamorphic LDs were released?

 

There were 4 Warner-Toshiba discs from the early 90's....7 Japanese "Stretch" ones, including a THX and regular T2. T2 THX is fabulous looking. There's a smattering of other Asian discs, many of 'em demo discs. I think there's about 35 or less, all total. All 92 Muse LD's are 16 x 9.

T2 is the only really fabulous looking one that I've seen. I own a copy. Somebody on AVS loaned me quite a few of 'em. I've seen most of the Toshiba and Stretch titles....

 

The 703 didn't output AC-3 RF in standard form, aftermarket mods to do so were relatively easy to do.

The 703/704 were ersatz Elite players without the fancy casework.

Info on "Squeeze LDs"

http://www.mindspring.com/~laserguru/squeeze.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laserdisc#Squeeze_LD

 

To expand on Josh Z's statement that Squeez didn't catch on, here's why, the sets were all $5000 or more. They were all big CRT RP's. They ran ads for Toshiba's and JVC's in Stereo Review. I can stille picture 'em. I remember the small print about getting the wide LD's with purchase. Even if I could of afforded one at the time, which I couldn't....well, I could'a traded my car on one.... , where was additional content gonna come from?

At the time, the apple of my eye for LD was the 32" Sony XBR96 and later the updated XBR100. I had to settle for a lesser Sony model though but it was 32" with an above average comb filter....nice for 1992....that's about when all this was happenin'.

Pioneer made a 16 x 10 RP. My local dealer had one on the floor for years on end. It was damn dusty by the time they sold it. They had the Toshiba LD's for awhile, a few sets. They sold and took 'em home for themselves pretty quick. Then, they were down to only Free Willy and then even it went....to get projected in the air... The mad docteur got 'em.

1992 is the year the Japanese tried to give us HDTV and were fought off...for you know who's sake.... Really, after that rebuff, it kind relegated the U.S. market to 2nd string for many years. We didn't get their best TV's and LD players anymore. Not much Muse, analog hi-def equipment found it's way to the U.S. until years later when folks who imported HLD-X9's and HLD-X0's occasionally got outboard decoders for Muse LD play. That's later 90's though.

Take Pioneer, for example, after 1993's CLD-97, they never sent us anything resembling their best stuff even. 1995's CLD-99 design was the 4th string deck in Japan. They gave up on selling us better video and pushed the audio, AC-3.

The start of Squeez...not Squish or whatever I called it last post... and Muse era in Japan marked a bit of a stagnant period for us. We could'a waded on into Muse analog HD, Squeez, and Muse LD but the powers that be forbade it.

1992, the turning point in the wrong direction....

 

Ah, my bad: you're absolutely right about the need to mod the 703's to output AC-3. I was thinking of my 604, which did output AC-3 (but whose video didn't look nearly as good).

Thanks for the other info!

 

I am kinda glad, really, we didn't embrace analog HD. Although it's ridiculous it's taken us this long to get digital TV off the ground, we did leapfrog one generation.

 

I still have an Elite CLD-99 that the last time I checked still works. I cannot remember when I bought it, but for many years when I had a combined audio / video system it was my CD player and it sound good (never used the AC-3 feature, had a straight stereo receiver). I finally replaced it with a Sony DVP-9000ES which off course turned me on to SACD and when I got my dedicated stereo system the SCD-1 arrived. Both the CLD-99 and the 9000ES are in my video system today.

 

Agreed.

It's not always good being first out of the blocks.

Down here in NZ, we might get HD in 2008.

Given SKY's record here, it will probably look worse than their existing SD digital broadcasts, which currently are way below the best analogue feeds.