Thanks Budysr...I guess I just needed someone to back up what I'd already thought! A Mobile Fidelity Geodisc popped through the door this morning so I'm going to spend a bit of time playing about with things tonight. Btw, I used to own a Michell Orbe/Rega RB300/Dynavector DVX20 and whilst the PLX-1000 is obviously going to be outclassed by something 4x it's price, it doesn't sound 4x better (if that makes sense)- Law of diminishing odds and all that... From my point of view the Pioneer certainly don't disgrace itself in my system.
Didn't mention Gyrodec. The cheaper Tecnodec with OEM RB202 arm is £897 in the UK v £700 for the Pioneer PLX1000. On that basis I think the extra £197 is worth saving for. Real hi-fi deck that looks great and sounds surprisingly close to the Gyrodec - arm can be upgraded to other Rega based models or SME.
In North America, the Tecnodec sells for more than double the price of the PLX-1000! As for it being a "real hi-fi deck" that's a rather subjective call don't you think? I notice Michell offers no specs on their web site regarding wow & flutter or rumble, which always looks suspicious to me. Kind of reminds me of Rega who never publish such specs either (rumored to be because of their history with speed problems). Perhaps the Tecnodec is a good deck, but in the $1.5-2k price range, there are a lot of good options. In that range, I'd be looking at a Clearaudio Concept, an RP6, a Traveler (providing the arm doesn't fall off!), an Avid Ingenium, etc.
Yes, I got that. Just used the Gyrodec for comparison as thats the only Michell table I've heard. In the U.S. the Tecnodec with RB202 is 2000.00 dollars the Pioneer PLX1000 is 700.00 dollars. We don't have anything here that would come close to the Michell for 700.00. A Rega RP3 with Elyse goes for 1100.00.
By the way, you Brits are really paying a premium price for the PLX-1000. Here in Canada it lists for $899. With the current exchange rate, £700 is the equivalent of over $1300 CDN.
RP6 wow & flutter is 0.074. Great pitch stability and that number is from an independent review of a stock table. The pioneer spec is 0.1 and if you compare the two tables its noticeable where it is not on the RP6. Not that it is a fair comparison given the prices of the two tables. I'd take a Michell table over a VPI or Clearaudio in a minute.
So far we don´t know the figures on the pioneer. As for the RP6 there are also measurements considerable higher than these measured. But for a real good comparing we must use the same record and the same measuring device.
Just curious. Where have you read higher wow & flutter measurements for an RP6 and I was just going with Pioneers claimed specification.
The RP6 I heard sounded pretty stable too. When I tested flutter (unweighted but excluding wow) on my Technics using a test record and W/F measurement software, I got about 0.065% RMS. The test record was not in perfect condition. Clean, undistorted grooves but it had some minor ripples and was a little more off-center (audible) than I usually tolerate. So the wow measurement can't be trusted as it includes the off-center issue but, even so, wow still wasn't that bad coming in at a shade under 0.1%. That's why I like knowing that the drive system of a turntable is very stable to begin with. I don't want to start out at 0.1% and have things only go downhill from there.
Yes I know You were, that´s why I said we must measure it the same way we measure another TT. You can look at Milleraudioresearch, they have tested quite a few TTs. The frequency analyses is really not good with the RP6, not good enough for me at least.
What's your source for the RP6 measurement? I'm not questioning it's validity just curious. I'm planning on finally replacing my piece-of-junk Project Xpression in the coming months and I'm currently gathering Smucker's info as I can. As for the Michell, I'm not saying it's not good but opinions are varied. I've seen lots of people claim the Rp6 is the best choice, others the VPI, others the <fill in the blank>
Wow according to them the RP6 beat the VPI Classic? That's interesting and I wonder what their methodology is.
There is nothing that says that measured performance of the Pioneer isn´t as good as the RP6, sofar. In reality very few TTs have really good figures.
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/test-report-rega-rp6-turntable-page-2 If you go through V.E. you'll see a few different sources all around 0.075 there's one over there that states 0.026 but I've no idea how he got it nor do I believe it. I choose the RP6 after listening to the Clearaudio Concept and VPI Scout based on sound and the fact that it had a dustcover and that I could get it with a 2m Blue for a bit over $1500.00 delivered
For what its worth, the Miller Audio people state the RP6 max deviation was 0.27% and the Stereophile article states the Pioneer's was 0.31%. Anyways the PLX1000 at its price point in the U.S. is pretty much a winner. Anyone recently hear any of the cheap Project or Music Hall tables and the Pioneer recently?
Lol. I'm gonna say no, considering I've heard the two side by side and that those specs,that I didn't even know at the time of listening, correspond with what I heard.
If You heard a difference You can be very sure it was not this difference You heard, it´s not really possible.
Just wanted to say that comparing a maximum deviation measurement to a weighted RMS percentage is like comparing apples to hamburgers. What other W&F measurements did they publish besides max deviation? Max deviation was almost never used when measuring wow and flutter for test reports in the heyday of turntables and analog tape decks.
£700?....I don't think so. RRP in UK is £599.99 - I paid only £680 for both turntable and Nagaoka MP-110.
Well I'm sure I saw it listed at £699 some weeks ago but not surprised that it is being discounted. In fact it can be had at £470 now. That does make a difference to my previous comments but think this is a £350 TT. The pound has strengthened recently. I still would encourage people to save for something closer to £800. A better long term purchase. If it drops to under £400 this would make it worthwhile for spinning singles or a second system but would like to know they did something about arm bearings. After all it's mass produced in China using parts common to a number of other Hanpin models.
as I wrote earlier in the thread, if one goes by published mfr specs the PLX-1000 and the VPI Classic are equals: 0.1%wow & flutter, - 70dB rumble.
Probably a dumb question but can one by reading the specs determine how a turntable is going to sound? If that's the case then the Technics DD tables such as SL1200 and SP10 should be the best ever turntables because they have the best w&f and rumble specs and no belt-driven table will be able to compete.
