Which is pretty much the point in making. A lot the criticism here and elsewhere for the PLX-1000 is that it doesn't match those Technics specs so is therefore no good but really almost no turntables available new today match them, certainly not in that price range.
Yes, I have been pointing out this. Firstly we must compare measurements that are done in the same way, and according to standards, both weighted and unweighted. Secondly very few TTs are in reality especially good in this area, measured W&F for most is normally between 0.1% and 0.06%, what I have seen, nearly independant of price. And in reality the record and fundamental tonearm resonance are by far the most influencial anyway, when listening. It is of course good to have zero W&F from the platter but maybe we shouldn´t focus on that too much, if we do we can only listen to very few TTs.
Exactly. I see folks here damning the PLX-1000 because Pioneer's marketing folks dare to position it as some sort of heir to the hallowed SL-1200 yet it doesn't match the specs. Yet you can find all kinds of criticism all over the internet (including here) of the Technics for its dark sound, flat sound, lack of soundstage, etc., etc. Folks have to mod it with dampers, external power supplies, etc., just to get a sound they like. Certainly KAB has made a decent living with SL-1200 mods.
You sure do like your RP6! To be fair, it's definitely a tt I'm considering, but I keep reading these stories about platter wobble, something I don't feel like dealing with after paying $1700 for a new turntable. Then there all those folks who feel you need to add spend an extra $600-700 on Groovetracer mods to get it sounding its best.
I agree, even if I believe tonearm damping should not really be considered a mod, all arms should in reality have it and I really can´t understand why most lack such important part of an arm. An arm without damping is not a complete arm.
Oh the platter wobble sucks. Though I think a lot of what's happening is the sub platter isnt seated well on some of the tables. I had some wobble and just pushed down on the sub platter a bit and still had wobble. So I went through the place a got it and Rega sent me a new sub. I changed it out and pushed down a bit and noticed a little oil over flow. Cleaned it off and played some LPs and the wobble was mostly gone. I was thinking I'd have to change to a Groovetracer but after about 11 or 12 albums I noticed that the wobble was only detectable with a ruler and by 20 hours there was no perceivable wobble. I do really enjoy it. I spent almost 2 years looking for an upgrade to my SL1200. The 1200 was just plain better than everything under a $1000.00, with the exception of the RP3. RP3 was a toss up. It did some things better like micro dynamics and brass and wind instruments and conveyed more detail but the 1200 had its strengths. It did things like pianos perfectly, pitch was spot on and the bass was solid. At the time I didn't think there'd be a big difference between the RP3 and the RP6. The stuff I'd read all implied lots of small improvements but the difference was immediately noticeable. It was a lot like the difference between the plx1000 and SL1200. Every aspect of the sound was just better and more realistic with 1200. So after listening to the Clearaudio Concept, which is the table I had originally thought I would get, and the VPI traveler and having heard the scout. I came to the conclusion that the RP6 was the most enjoyable and practical table of the lot. Which is also the reason I'd get a PLX1000 in its price range. Its the most enjoyable table you can get until you jump to the $1000.00 mark and its practical with its heft and dustcover. Its the kind of table that will allow you to enjoy the music and not obsess about what's playing it.
Thanks for the reply. Lots of interesting points. Tell me what did you not like about the Clearaudio Concept? That's one I've been thinking about a lot.
Stop the presses! I was just on the Walmart site looking for something when for a whim I typed "turntable" into the search field. Here's one for us "experienced audiophiles": Dig that orange plinth!
I think that while some people forget that the SL-1200MKx weren't originally "just DJ turntables" and thus dismiss them immediately, some others forget that Technics made better turntables than the 1200 back in the day. Bone stock I found my Technics to be very dull. Over the years I've narrowed that down to several things. First, taken as a whole, there are some quality control issues that used to pop up regularly. KAB has gone over that in detail on their site and those issues really have to be addressed first. Second, the stock headshell is awful and adds too many points of resonance to the tonearm. And third, the stock feet (and really any feet that screw into the base) exacerbate vibration and color the sound. I don't know what exactly it is about the stock feet and/or where they are screwed into the base but they add a coloration that I can hear even with headphones. I know a lot of people originally bought their Technics from KAB. Those Technics were gone over with a fine tooth comb and some parts adjusted or even replaced before they were shipped out. On top of that, many people bought them with some upgrades already installed, particularly the tonearm damper. So those people were essentially hearing a different turntable than someone who pick up a stock model somewhere else. All IMO, of course.
I actually like the Clearaudio but in the end I like the more involving sound of the RP6. I think the Concept has a slightly more shut in sound then the RP6. Overall i think the differences are small but noticable. The RP6 just sounded more life like overall. I heard them both with the Clearaudio Performer, which I have to say I didn't care for. Clearaudio cartridges are just rebodied AT Carts, at least the performer is, and I find the two I've heard to be very bland, boring cartridges. Plus the RP6 gives you a dustcover and I can't imagine owning a turntable without one, or maybe I just can't imagine owning one for very long without one. These things are delicate and it wouldve added another 275.00 to get a plexiglass set over cover for the Concept. In the concepts defense it gives you VTA adjustment where the Rega only allows it to be adjusted with spacers. But since I don't change my cartridge often that was less important.
You guys are going to think I'm nuts. I think I'm nuts, but I've triple checked this before I posted. My opinion of the PLX-1000 hasn't changed. I'm enjoying the hell out of it. But I don't like the platter mat because the LP isn't supported evenly across the diameter due to the recesses in the mat. My real issue is this- I clean my mat so that when the clean side of the LP is flipped, I don't want dust picked up during play of the album side deposited on the mat, which can be transferred to another LP. Due to the indentations, the factory mat can't be easily cleaned. So, after checking the options, I purchased the GEM Dandy mat from George Merrill's Analog Emporium. I liked the fact that the mat is flat across the record surface, with an indentation for the label. Also, Mr. Merrill certainly knows his stuff, and the engineering behind the mat makes sense to me. Listening? I loved the Pioneer before. I still do. If there is a tonal or dynamic difference, it is subtle. But here is the interesting thing: with the stock mat, I observed a very subtle speed drift with the strobe. With the new mat? Nada, none, zilch. I have two thoughts here: the mat makes a bigger difference than I expected. The other possibilities are that I've been listening to albums for 7 hours and our AC is cleaner in the wee hours, or the Pioneer has "broken in." I'm just throwing this out there to let current owners know of my experience and let those hung up on the W&F spec know of my observations.
that is interesting. I'm not using the stock mat either. I have a super thick mat that came from an old sony TT that is heavier and thicker than the stock mat, so its all I've used to this point. I think the sony mat is likely the same thickness(4mm) and weight as the technics 1200 mats? The fact that this TT responds as much as it does to different mats has to be a credit. We already know about the stereophile guys and their "mat experiment" on this table too.
Some guy made of video of destroying this turntable with an old lawnmower. It was juvenile but it exposed the really cheap build quality of the turntable.
Yes they did. The mighty SP series. Dull? Depends on the cartridge used. I don't recommend anything else beside the Audio-Technica MM line because of the lift in the upper octaves. I don't find the rest to be awful. Could it be better? Of course. I don't hear any of that either. I can bang on the SL-1210M5G and no vibration that I can hear. Perhaps my hearing is not as acute as yours.
that has to be a typo. Amazon isn't even discounting, and nobody else seems to have for less than $695? And it's 'special order'. Bet it turns out to be a mistake.
Wow at that deal! I wonder if the base price is going to go down everywhere soon? That is quite a price cut. This TT is a STEAL at that price! I paid 697 at GC a couple weeks ago. I wonder if they have a price-match, low price guarantee?
Well, it IS a discussion about the value and worth of the PLX-1000 that's obviously based on the 1200. Can't imagine it being inappropriate or even off-topic to discuss their value compared to a used 1200??
