Pioneer's new PLX-1000 Turntable

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by bluelips, Jul 17, 2014.

  1. Stefan

    Stefan Senior Member

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    It`s weird. I saw your image when I went to reply, but now I just see the Angelfire logo.

    As for the video here's the link. Just delete the spaces I've added to prevent the forum from reinserting the video: https: // www.youtube.com/ watch?v=RXGAh6nxODo

    Funny enough, I see the video inserted in my previous message without problem.
     
  2. Stefan

    Stefan Senior Member

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Here's another one comparing an AT95E to a 2M Red body with an OM3E stylus on it!



    https:// www.youtube.com/ watch?v=Yj4aEryuCQE
     
    groovelocked likes this.
  3. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lakeland, FL
    I don't. While I have a lot of 180-200 gram LPs, the vast majority of my albums aren't. I set mine for a "normally thick" LP and I'm good to go.

    While I may take a while to setup/adjust/tweak a turntable, when I find the sweet spot, I let it be. Life is too short to adjust VTA all the time.
     
    The Pinhead and Dr. Metal MD like this.
  4. Poison_Flour

    Poison_Flour Forum Resident

    wow
     
  5. Dr. Metal MD

    Dr. Metal MD Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Here's a question for you guys. Which do you think is better, the PLX-1000 or the Technics 1200 and why?
     
  6. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    The 1200 is better but good look finding one in good shape at a reasonable price. Go for the Pioneer. Best bang-for-the-buck on the market nowadays IMHO.
     
    Licorice pizza likes this.
  7. Stefan

    Stefan Senior Member

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Conventional wisdom says the 1200 but as Waxfreak says, trying finding one in good shape at a reasonable price. It can be done, but even if it looks good and doesn't seem to be beat up from being banged around the club circuit for DJing, the electronics are still possibly 30-40 years old. Yes spare parts are fairly plentiful, but do you want to deal with getting repairs done, or do you want to spin some vinyl? Or even if you score an SL1200 in good shape, there are those who feel it needs modding by Kab or using Kab products to achieve good sound.

    Additionally, one could argue that stock tonearm on the Pioneer is better due to the insulation inside. Then there are listening perceptions, which of couse are all very subjective. I've seen some folks refer to the SL1200 as very dark sounding. The Stereophile review stated that the PLX-1000 sounded better than an SL-1200 (of course that review not only enraged the SL1200 and/or vintage proponents, but it also has some serious audiophile knickers in a knot because the reviewer dared to state that a Hanpin product could possibly be better than all those audiophile darling products out there under $2000).

    So were the SL1200 available new for the same price, it'd probably be a better choice simply due to the availability of parts and potential mods, but maybe not. It's not. You can buy some NOS SL1200s for double the price or more of the PLX-1000. Plus there may be some scams out there. Last year I was thinking of getting one and posted a wanted ad on the Canuckaudiomart forum. Before long I had a private message from a guy who claimed he'd be happy to sell me a NOS 1200 for $800. It seemed a bit too good to be true and when I started asking questions, he seemed a bit angry that I wasn't snapping it up without question! Needless to say I didn't go for it. I check the local kijiji, etc., regularly and most of the SL-1200s look like club circuit casualties. Occasionally there's one that looks like it's been cared for, but I'm still hesitant. I really don't like the idea of buying used. I want new, untouched. Plus, I've been burned before by supposedly sound recommendations from audiophiles who claimed certain turntables were the best one could buy in the entry and mid-level price range and they turned out to be junk. So while I'm not a PLX-1000 or SL1200 fanboy per se, I don't necessarily take the buy VPI, buy Pro-Ject, buy Rega mantras all too seriously.
     
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  8. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm
    It´s hard to tell soundwise, does anybody really know, this is by it´s nature mostly subjective, and I don´t see any that has really compared them. Quality wise? We know that the 1200 is extremely reliable, it just works and works, 30years old, it´s just as good as new.
    Here there are no problems in finding mint to ex used 1200II at good prices.
    So the conclusion for me, if I would buy a knowingly high quality TT, without any hesitation it would be the 1200II.
     
    Dr. Metal MD likes this.
  9. motorcitydave

    motorcitydave Enlightened Rogue In Memoriam

    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    I would say Technics....however, I have not heard the Pioneer let alone a shoot out with the Technics. You need the same cartridges in both as well. I do know the better the cartridge you put in the Technics, the better it'll perform.

    Many of us are using the top MMs from Audio-Technica, Ortofon, Shure, Goldring, etc. I'm using the very popular AT150MLX by Audio-Technica. Mounted to the Technics arm, there is no notion of the Technics being dark sounding.

    It is very open, alive, and clear. With the right cartridge. And no, no modifications here. I'm not interested in a Frankenstein table.
     
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  10. Dr. Metal MD

    Dr. Metal MD Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Excellent points. So, do you also agree that it is the best bang for your buck TT? Does it indeed out-perform similarly prices VPIs, Pro-Jects, and Regas? I am just trying to get a feel for approximately how much more money I would have to spend to get something better than the PLX-1000 ( for audiophile listening and not DJing).
     
  11. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US

    There are plenty of good condition 1200s out there. They haven't been out of production that long -- only 5 years. And they were manufactured for 38 years. It takes patience, but you can score a very nice condition on for $350-$400. I've seen the prices on ebay edge down a wee bit over the last year -- everything goes in cycles. But it takes patience and diligence. Anyone who had one in their home system is still going to have one in fine condition. I bought a 1700mkII (really the first model of the SL-1200, except with the added bonus of being semi-automatic) two years ago in MINT condition, not a mark on it, from some guy for $150. At that was a 38-year old table. So age isn't that much of a factor if you find one from a good home. That was on craigslist. Yes, there are plenty of flippers trying to sell 1200s in boxes for over a thousand dollars on ebay: They never sell. Kind of like $500 for a Beanie Baby greed. They're deluding themselves. No one is buying them for that. Even a huge company like B&H photo has boxed ones for over a grand and no one has bought them for five years now. And they get MILLIONS of shoppers. As far as sound. Depends on what you're looking for. Me, I like bass which is why I sold my Thorens and got a Technics. I like a warmer sound. So if the Pioneer is brighter and livelier, I might prefer the Technics to the Pioneer. I think the Pioneer looks good, but that price is going to come down. It's hot now. And get if from Guitar Center around the holidays and you'll score at least one of their 30% or 40% off deals. No way I'd pay more than $400 for that table. I sold stereos for years and dealers get product from companies like Pioneer for at least 60% off list, that would put Guitar Center's cost at $320. I'm sure you'll see $400 soon.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2015
    Dr. Metal MD likes this.
  12. Stefan

    Stefan Senior Member

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    I can't say for sure as I haven't owned VPIs or Regas. I can say that you'll find all kinds of opinions on the net for and against. I do know the two Pro-Ject turntables I've owned, the Debut III and Xpression II. Both had a major flaw with noisy motors., I even replaced the motor on the Xpression with another Pro-Ject motor and although it initially seemed better, within 1-2 weeks it developed the same problem. Others will tell you their units are fine, but if you sample some of the postings on Youtube for Debutsa, you often hear the same problem. I've also seen increasing mention around the net of noisy motor problems with VPIs and one frequent Youtube poster "dabroadcasta" who posts tons of needledrop videos seems in his recent video postings to have developed a similar motor noise problem. Of course, this could be an isolated case, but again, I've seen other discussions recently around the various turntable forums, so it makes me wonder if it's something like the Pro-Ject problem.

    That aside, my interest in the PLX-1000 is based on two factors that appeal to me, the ability to change cartridges via the removable headshell, something the Pro-Ject and Rega simply cannot do, and something certain VPI models can do only with a new wand, which costs more than the entire PLX-1000). I have three cartridges I could swap out and am also interested in a couple of others so the possibility of being able to quickly switch cartridges the way others do appeals to me a lot.

    Related to that cartridge swapping ability is the PLX-1000's on-the-fly VTA/arm height adjustment. As I explained in an earlier post, I can only adjust my Pro-Ject's arm height by loosening a small setscrew on the back of the tonearm base then raising or lowering, then tightening the screw, which frequently screws up my alignment setting because the vertical tube has too much play. Plus, to get any sort of repeatability, I have to measure the height with a feeler gauge note it, then try to duplicate the settings, and again reset the alignment. It's just too frustrating to deal with, and to make matters worse, my favorite cartridges are sensitive to VTA adjustment (and yes I know technically it's the SRA, but the arm height adjustment is what changes it).

    So for my interests and priorities, the PLX-1000 would seem to fit the bill. Yes, I'm concerned about the PLX's loose bearings issue but those who've dealt with it seem to indicate it's a simple adjustment to fix. I would have bought one of the AT's (LP120 or LP1240) but from what I've read around the net, they have some sort of motor noise problems as well) plus I'm not keen on buying a brand new product then having to take it apart to remove the pre-amp. I'm comfortable with the actual work having done some electronics hobby work, but I just don't feel like having to do so on a brand new product.

    I might also go for a Stanton ST.150, but I don't like its look. the Reloop 8000 might be nice as well, but all the MIDI stuff turns me off.

    Given my priorities, the other route to go would be what my Pro-Ject dealer suggested when I saw him this winter to buy my new phono stage and contemplated budgeting $2500 for a new turntable, go for a Michel Tecnodec then add a Jelco arm. That might sound good but then again spending the $1k for the PLX (list price in Canada now is $899 plus 15% sales tax) and using the other $1.5k to purchase a couple of additional cartridges and lots of vinyl appeals to me more. :) The possibility of buying used is always there, but I just don't want to take the chance. So that leaves me with the PLx-1000.
     
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  13. Dr. Metal MD

    Dr. Metal MD Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Vinyl Addict likes this.
  14. Turntable

    Turntable Senior Member

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Another audio buddy happy PLX-1000 owner Downunder :edthumbs: His other table is the highly respected Garrard 401.

    His quotes

    Setup mine and on first listen I am very impressed.
    It seems so solid and smooth working for so little in price.
    With the speed I never lock it in (reset off), just set it where it looks right in the middle and I do not get the drift/bounce back. It moves maybe less than a mm in a minute or more but it is so gradual.
    That was with just moving it to were I thought the middle was without too much effort.

    So far it seems an awesome table for the price. Bargain I reckon too.


    It is just a shame some people are just so hell bent on overloading there negative views on the forums every chance they get. Hopefully it doesn't persuade to many people to at least give vinyl a go and decide for themselves. It really is a fun and rewarding hobby sometimes. [​IMG]




    [​IMG]
     
  15. Budysr

    Budysr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pensacola, FL.
    Stefan, you need to go ahead and pull the trigger on a PLX-1000. I seriously doubt you will be disappointed based on what I've read in your posts. Slap that AT150MLX on it and hook it up to your pre with some good interconnects and maybe a thicker mat. Audio bliss!
     
    HiFi Guy likes this.
  16. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lakeland, FL
    No way. I managed an audio/video store. Below is the normal breakdown:

    Specialty Speakers: 50% markup dealer cost to MSRP. If large quantities (truckloads) of close out models were purchased I've seen as high as 65% but that was very rare- like once.

    High End Electronics- 40% markup. Interestingly, purchased in large quantities, B stock gear had more.

    Commodity Electronics- (Sony/Pioneer/JVC/Kenwood) 20-25% markup.

    Video- 1o-16%. Not even worth messing with unless you could interest the customer in audio gear as well. Our company refused American Express purchases on video gear. The low profit vs. high Amex fees made the transactions real dogs. Against their agreement? Yes, but we did it anyway-a posted store policy.

    This, by the way, isn't profit. Stores still need to pay their overhead out of the markup. It's a tough business and I applaud those who are succeeding in today's challenging environment.

    Edit: Guitar Center won't discount the PLX-1000 until it is a discontinued item. Some brands are MAP brands- minimum advertised price- Bose, Pioneer, Rickenbacker guitars and basses. Marantz, Onkyo, McIntosh and Denon too. There are plenty more. That's why it's tough sometimes to get a discount- or if you do, it's something for "free" so the MAP is on the receipt. Dealers can lose their lines for discounting MAP items. We got around it by doing "system pricing"- an amp, CD player and speakers for a discounted price, without ever disclosing individual pricing for each item. That way no one could tell we had discounted a MAP item- the discount could have been from something else on the receipt.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2015
    Licorice pizza likes this.
  17. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    [QUOTE="HiFi Guy, post: 12392851, member: 55348"
    High End Electronics- 40% markup. Interestingly, purchased in large quantities, B stock gear had more.[/QUOTE]

    Pioneer ain't high end electronics. It's a major brand, not boutique. Guaranteed mark up is 60% on this table.
     
  18. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lakeland, FL
    Pioneer ain't high end electronics. It's a major brand, not boutique. Guaranteed mark up is 60% on this table.[/QUOTE]

    You are right. Pioneer is a commodity. Lower markup than high end- read my above post again. If the "guaranteed" markup were 60%, I'd go back into the audio business tomorrow. If there were that much markup in audio, stores wouldn't be closing and GC wouldn't be a billion dollars in debt.

    Edit: There may very well be a 60% spread between what Pioneer pays Hanpin and MSRP. That has zero bearing on dealer margin or street price.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2015
  19. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    Everybody is selling this table at LIST. Guitar Center even is putting its list priced at $849 when Pioneer's own site has it at $699. So, anyway, now is not the time to buy one of these. It's got buzz around it and sellers are gouging you for it. Last time I paid list price for something was ... never. When it gets down to 40% list, that's the time. And that probably won't be that long. Buzz never lasts long. I remember not so long ago people were jumping to pay $350 for Sennheiser momentums, now you can pick up a set $160 any day of the week.
     
  20. Licorice pizza

    Licorice pizza Livin’ On The Fault Line

    True, HiFi. I got my Plx-1000 for $699 at GC, regular price, no discount. And I have a GC credit card (have bought numerous basses there).
     
  21. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lakeland, FL
    I didn't pay list either. The GC website refused a discount code, and when I called for assistance, I was told no discounts on Pioneer products.

    When I called Musicians Friend (same company as GC BTW) I didn't disclose that I was buying Pioneer and got a working discount code which I then used online.

    Dealers don't even WANT to sell Pioneer, Sony, Bose, etc, because the money isn't in those lines. Many dealers feel they have to have them because people recognize the brand. Most consumers have never heard of VPI (except the university) Rega, McIntosh, Bryson, or any other high end brand.

    Imagine getting a call:

    I'm looking for speakers. Do you sell Bose?

    No, but we have many other excellent brands.

    Bose is the best. Click.

    My company stocked Bose for example. We never sold them, but we stocked them so the above call never happened.

    Same thing with Pioneer, come to think if it.
     
  22. Licorice pizza

    Licorice pizza Livin’ On The Fault Line

    True, Wax. I wanted a Technics, but couldn't see myself paying the same amount of money as a Pioneer Plx-1000 new to get a used, beat up SL-1200 with a history of issues rather than a Pioneer clone. Imagine the headaches involved in locating parts and the endless service bills? :doh::imwithstupid:
     
  23. Wngnt90

    Wngnt90 Forum Resident

    Guess I was lucky...my SL 1200 mk2 was built in 2001 and came from a home system in mint condition. So it will be spinning my records for many years to come.
     
    Licorice pizza likes this.
  24. ClausH

    ClausH Senior Member

    Location:
    Denmark
    I bought a used Technics 1200 six years ago. It had been used for DJ'ing but worked flawlessly and was in great condition. Paid $200 for it.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2015
    Licorice pizza likes this.
  25. NOS300B

    NOS300B The Moon Queen

    What record clamp/weight is that?
     

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