Playing Quadraphonic records question

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Bill Cormier, Feb 27, 2016.

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  1. Bill Cormier

    Bill Cormier Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Malta, New York
    A friend of mine has a ton of Quad LP`s that he would like to play.

    He had a couple of questions for me that I could not answer (as I am no expert ) so I figured I would post his questions here.

    First question; What do I need, amp wise, to play my Quad. LP`s ?

    I told him to look for an old `70s Quad. amp online. If there are other alternatives please chime in !

    Second question; Is there some sort of Quad. pre-amp I can use to decode these to Quad. using my stereo amp. ?

    I told him I didn`t think so, but I would pose this question on the site here.
    Seems to me it would still be stereo either way with a stereo amp but he does have 4 speaker terminals on the back of his amp.


    He does know that he needs 4 speakers :)

    Thanks !
     
  2. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    If you want to transfer them to true quad playback DVD's or WAV files, you can use a great little free quadraphonic (for those records encoded with the SQ Matrix process) decoder available here:

    https://www-user.rhrk.uni-kl.de/~junglas/SQdecode/SQdecode.html

    First, you playback the LP and digitize it to a WAV file using a program such as Audacity available here:

    Audacity® »

    Then, you put the resulting WAV file through SQDecode which results in a quadraphonic WAV file which you can burn to a multichannel DVD-A or DVD-V, or simply playback on your computer.

    SQ decoding hardware from the 1970's was pretty awful and playing SQ Quad records through them usually did not result in the separation and soundstage that the recording engineer intended.
    By contrast, SQDecode results in a very true reproduction of the SQ Quad record soundstage that the mixing engineer intended.

    For example, Bob Dylan's Nashville Skyline in quad, done in the mid-1970's by the original engineer (Neil Wilburn) on the 1969 sessions, plays some really cool tricks with the instrument placement on "Nashville Skyline Rag" where the instruments answer each other from different corners of the quad soundstage. SQDecode does a wonderful job of reproducing this from the SQ Quad record.
     
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  3. Bill Cormier

    Bill Cormier Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Malta, New York
    Awesome, this was another question he had ! Thanks so much !

    Oh, as far as Quad. playback, if he does the above, can he use a modern 5.1 system to play them back correctly ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
  4. JimW

    JimW In the Process of Becoming

    Location:
    Charlottesville VA
    I would suggest you go to quadraphonicquad.com where quad is still very much alive. Besides getting answers to your questions, they may be able to direct you to the best places to find good quality used gear. The site is filled with very friendly, very knowledgeable people (not that this site isn't, but the you'll find more knowledge about quad specifically there).
     
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  5. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    No. Although the first version of Dolby Digital was based on the same "matrix decoding" as SQ Quad, modern 5.1 will NOT accurately reproduce the same quad "soundstage" as SQ encoding. Remember that there were a number of different quad formats around in the mid-1970's. Columbia had SQ which was by-far the most common with the most records made using it. You can really educate yourself by simply looking at the Wikipedia article on quadaphonic sound....

    Quadraphonic sound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia »
     
  6. Bill Cormier

    Bill Cormier Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Malta, New York
    Great, thanks so much ! I will pass this all along to my friend.
     
  7. Muzyck

    Muzyck Pardon my scruffy hospitality

    Location:
    Long Island
    So, I can see how you can use SQDecode to convert a needledrop to a decoded .wav 4 channel file, but what software is needed to convert that file to a DVD-A or DVD-V to playback other than on your computer?

    I actually tried the SQDecode and decoded an SQ needledrop track tonight. Very cool to be able to see it on Audacity as a four channel output. The decode process does take a long time. Jury still out on how accurate it is. SQ isn't discrete to begin with, but that software is neat. If nothing else, I can use audacity to burn a CD of isolated channels easy enough.
     
  8. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    I use a DVD-A burning program from several years ago called DVD-Audio Solo from a company called "Cirlinca" to burn multi-channel DVD-A's from the 4 channel WAV files produced by SQDecode. This product is no longer available, replaced by a new product which burns Blu-Rays as well. I have had very good luck with Cirlinca's older product, and can highly recommend his work as far as burning DVD audio discs.

    As I said, I can attest to the "accuracy" of SQDecode by listening to the "discrete" separation of an album such as "Nashville Skyline" quad. I also happen to own a version of "Nashville Skyline" on quadraphonic 8 track tape cartridge (that amazingly still plays just fine -- thank you Columbia!). This 8 track cartridge was NOT SQ matrixed, but rather, had the 4 channels recorded discretely recorded on it. SQDecode's results are pretty much indistinguishable from the 8 track cartridge, especially when using the option "SQ Decode Plus Normal Channel Mix" which gives you better separation on the front channels. An excellent test of the abilities of SQDecode is the instrumental from Nashville Skyline, called "Nashville Skyline Rag".

    Another test of SQDecode's ability is comparing its results to some of the wonderful quad releases from Audio Fidelity. I have "Blood Sweat and Tears" (their second album) SQ quad LP and SQDecode does a fine job of matching it as far as quad separation goes.
     
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  9. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    You need decoders for all disc formats, the common ones being Sony's SQ matrix, Sansui's QS matrix, and CD-4 (the latter requires low capacitance tonearm wiring, and a Shibata stylus, aligned and setup correctly. All decoders must be set up and adjusted the best they can. You also need a 4 channel discrete 8 track cartridge deck, and a 4 channel open reel machine for Quad reel tapes.
     
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  10. originalsnuffy

    originalsnuffy Socially distant and unstuck in time

    Location:
    Tralfalmadore
    McLover is correct. Realistically sq decoding is the first step. I have used the utility mentioned above and it does an ok job. Remember that sq was hardly discrete. Cd4 was the best for vinyl but had frequency limits. The base was the relatively rare four channel reel to reel. I have heard quad 8 track dubs that are better than I would have anticipated.


    Quadriphonic quad is indeed the go to site. Tab Patterson is the resident guru if I recall. I have email chatted with him and he is an excellent person
     
  11. Sax-son

    Sax-son Forum Resident

    Location:
    Three Rivers, CA
    All of this is correct. I had all this equipment at one time and had mixed results. If memory serves me right, for CD-4, you also needed a cartridge with a shibata tip and a 50000 hz minimum to get the CD-4 demodulator to work properly. I remember a lot of distortion as a result. The 4 channel discreet tapes actually worked the best.
     
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  12. Bill Cormier

    Bill Cormier Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Malta, New York
    Were the Quad decoders stand alone like a pre-amp or integrated into specific amps ?
     
  13. Bill Cormier

    Bill Cormier Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Malta, New York
    I appreciate the responses but lets just make it easy, what exactly does my friend need to get to play his Quad. records in actual Quad. sound ? He owns a standard turntable, stereo amp. and has 4 speakers. What else ?

    Thanks !
     
  14. Muzyck

    Muzyck Pardon my scruffy hospitality

    Location:
    Long Island
    $

    Edit: sorry, of course that answer seems like a threadcrap, but the truth is there are many formats and none of them can be easily be decoded without a significant amount of work. Based on the way you have presented it, it is probably best to tell your friend that he should not get his hopes up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
  15. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    He needs all I describe to play all the popular US formats. There were receivers which had decoding integrated (the Sansui QRX 9001 the best all format option)
     
  16. Bill Cormier

    Bill Cormier Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Malta, New York
    Sounds like a real pain ! I will let him know. Thanks for all the responses !!!!

    I noticed in an old Quad. record ad they mentioned an "Encoder", is that just the source ie; stereo turntable , tape deck , etc. ?
     
  17. Bill Cormier

    Bill Cormier Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Malta, New York
    Sounds like too much effort to me but I will let him know. :cheers:
     
  18. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Most amplifiers/receivers tend to play one format standard on disc, others optionally if offered. Tapes discrete and easily handled (8 track the most prevalent Quad tape format)
     
  19. Mister Charlie

    Mister Charlie "Music Is The Doctor Of My Soul " - Doobie Bros.

    Location:
    Aromas, CA USA
    I assume the dolby PLII decoder can pick out SQ matrixing in the mix and so with a 5.1 you can get a reasonable facsimile, all 4 speakers work fine. If I can play a stereo record in dolby PLII getting 'surround sound' then the cues from the quad album mixes seem ( to me anyway, and so far on mainly Columbia quad discs) to be clearer than the usual phased faux surround from stereo
    results.
     
  20. John Brookbank

    John Brookbank BLK Vinyl Slinger

    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Sorry to drop in for a potential easy answer when I could dig around elsewhere but this thread is active as I am searching so here goes..

    Quick question: a quad head, say the Pioneer QX-949, with 4 speakers and a standard stereo turntable setup can't decode the SQ discs Sony and Columbia put out without a separate piece of gear?
     
  21. JimW

    JimW In the Process of Becoming

    Location:
    Charlottesville VA
    I have one SQ encoded record and it does decode discreetly w/ DPL II, but the channels are not placed properly. On some songs, it sounds OK, but on others it sounds rather weird.
     
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  22. JimW

    JimW In the Process of Becoming

    Location:
    Charlottesville VA
    I'm far from an expert on quad but I know you need at least a quad cartridge- possibly a quad table.
     
  23. John Brookbank

    John Brookbank BLK Vinyl Slinger

    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I figured the stylus had to be different just in order to pick up the 4 channels but was at a record convention talking to folks today and have asked every store clerk I strike up a convo with about quad and started to get the feeling that there was at least one of the formats that you could play with a stereo needle and a quad head but was too good to be true, I suppose
     
  24. Muzyck

    Muzyck Pardon my scruffy hospitality

    Location:
    Long Island
    I don't think there is such a thing for SQ matrix LPs, it's all in the decoder.
     
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  25. John Brookbank

    John Brookbank BLK Vinyl Slinger

    Location:
    Austin, TX
    And the decoder isn't something inherent in something like the quad Pioneer head I am talking about? It's a separate piece of gear you have to get in the line with your setup?
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
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