Please help me spend $1000 - $1500

Hello,

I have about $1000 set aside to put into my stereo. I can push it to about $1500 if that's the best plan. Do you have any advice on how best to spend this money?

I listen to jazz vinyl 98% of the time, at somewhat sedate volumes- not softly, but I don't have much call for enormous power.

I'm mostly happy with my set-up, but I would love greater detail, a more defined soundstage, truer tonal range- the usual, I guess.

My current humble system:

Pioneer SX-828 (nicely refurbished early 70's)
Pro-ject Carbon Debut (with acrylic platter and Speed Box S)
AT150mlx
Music Hall Marimbas
Monoprice cords

I'm currently looking at the SOTA Moonbeam, with an eye towards a turntable upgrade. Also considering the SOTA Comet with a budget stretch.

How would you guys spend this money? Any thoughts would be very appreciated.

Thanks for your time.

Brad

 

A used Marantz PM8004 and spend the rest on better cables.

 

I think you're on the right track in thinking about blowing it all on one component. Going by price, I'd say replace the Marimbas first, but I haven't heard them.

The Pioneer certainly *looks* nice. How do you like the sound?

 

Very nice system, I'd say! I have a soft spot for the Pioneer receivers, my first 'real stereo' was based on the SX-450 in 1975? something like that.

I don't really have any suggestions ... just wanted to say that! Altho I'll babble for a while ... The cart seems very nice, shouldn't need to upgrade that at this point. I'm not sure what a TT upgrade would give you, as it seems like a good basic table with the upgrades/speed box is a good thing to have. I did something similar with my 'original' Pioneer TT, got a $100 cart (this was in 1980, so was a 'lot' of money for me then) that really improved the sonics.

The unknowns for me are the receiver and speakers ... I was going to suggest the speakers as a good upgrade path, but according to Stephen M
http://www.stereophile.com/content/music-hall-marimba-loudspeaker and Sam Tellig, these seem like EXCELLENT speakers for the money, and imaging champs.

Maybe pulling them out into the room if you're able will give you a better soundstage. I use a nearfield setup with my Tituses (and a sub in the corner), works great for me.

IF you have the speakers out into the room, not too far away from you, (set up properly in something like an equilateral triangle arrangement, etc.) and have experimented with space between the speakers, toe-in, etc., and still aren't getting a decent soundstage ... possibly the receiver just isn't up to it, I hate to suggest that. I haven't researched what folks think of the vintage Pioneers' performance in this regard, but I woudn't be surprised that a 70s vintage SS receiver just isn't up to snuff for this kind of thing. (Marantz tubed gear from the same/earlier time frame may likely be another story tho!).

Maybe the Rogue Audio Sphinx tube/hybrid integrated amp ...? http://www.needledoctor.com/Rogue-Audio-Sphinx-Integrated-Amp?sc=7&category=35774 (I'm sure available elsewhere too, I just saw this as an example) ...

You could still use the Pioneer as a tuner into one of the Rogue's line inputs.

I see someone else suggested (while I was composing this) a used Marantz PM8004 plus better cables. Another possibility too ... I'm not familiar with the 8004 but it seems well-regarded.

I was also going to suggest some better cables as you are able. I bought some Analysis Plus Oval 9 speaker cables thru Alan at AudioWaves for a discount (but they were still like $400 for a 15' pair that I needed) eons ago and haven't felt the slightest need to upgrade them. UsedCable.com may have something similar for less. The Oval 9s made a comparatively huge improvement in my system's overall sonics (after using 12 gauge copper zip cord, homemade braided Cat 5 cables, and AudioQuest Slate cables) - better/deeper/tighter bass and improvements in apparent resolution are things I noticed immediately.

I'll shut up now and see what others have to say ... HTH and good luck!

PS: OK, I'll suggest ... go for the Rogue Sphinx http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_sphinx.htm now, then get some Oval 9s or 12s or whatever in a couple months, then play with some other tubes in the Sphinx to dial in the sound you want ... you'll never look back! Use the Pioneer in another 'vintage' system in the garage or whatever ...

 

I'll agree and say to replace the Marimbas. I think the rest of your setup is just fine!

 

It looks to me that you have a nice system and your analog front end seems decent enough to keep.
Looking at the speakers, are they on nice solid stands? Are you getting enough bass out of your bookshelf
type speakers? If not, would a subwoofer help?

 

A rehabbed Fisher tube receiver would be a nice add.There's a few threads about them here.

 

Buy a record cleaner. And some used vinyl.

 

Get a better phono preamp. A Cambridge Audio 651 P would be better than the phono stage in the Pioneer. After that I'd look into larger speakers. Floor standing speakers have a greater sense of scale, better dynamics, more solid bass and tend to be more efficient than bookshelf speakers. I listen to a lot of jazz, for what it's worth. I've got a vintage receiver with a lot of power—the Kenwood 9600—and though the phono section is above average for its time, modern, good phono stages have better resolution and lower noise floors.

 

Read my thread about speaker positioning & pay me $1500 for consultancy fee. Seriously if your existing equipment is on a good rack maybe a better turntable. A full Technics 1210 with new arm & cartridge will do the biz.

 

I doubt that a used Technics direct drive table with a better than stock arm will be an improvement on a Pro-ject Carbon Debut (with acrylic platter and Speed Box S) with a AT150mlx cartridge. Different but not better.

 

For me I'd build up my mid tones... use the Pioneer pre-out to a reconditioned Quad current dumping power amp design... and then start saving for the ESL57's.

 

Upgrade the deck. Forget cables. The amp is fine for now. Source first always with a turntable. You should get a nice Rega P3 or maybe even better. Audio Note TT1 used for instance. Check your options for good used decks from a reliable dealer.

 

Don't replace any of the pieces you have, just complement them with a nice digital front end.

With a laptop and a USB asynchronous DAC you can play HD Tracks in stunning fidelity alongside your great sounding records.

And -

If there's any money left over, buy a nitty gritty to clean any used records you buy.

Or -

If you like headphone listening, there are some great 'phones priced between $300-$1600. High end headphones are as much fun as a new pair of planar magnetic or electrostatic speakers.

 

I'd suggest the Ortofon Black and a new phono stage, I recommend the Lounge phono a very good budget MM only pre.

 

I'd second the Lounge. I just got one and it's something else! I'm using mine with a Shure V15 mark3. Very dynamic and spacious and it's bound to get even better.

 

The AT150mlx ain't exactly chopped liver you know. I think the Ortofon would be a lateral move, not an outright improvement.

 

His vinyl front-end is just fine, but I do like the suggestion of adding a dedicated phono pre. And despite the accolades given to the Marimbas I do think they are a weak point.

 

I would look to upgrade the speakers, perhaps a nice pair of rehabbed large Advents or similar in response to the vintage receiver. Spend the rest on wire and vinyl.

 

That's a good thought. I'll look into that Marantz. Do you have any opinion on how the new models perform in comparison to the vintage models?

 

I like the sound, but without being able to do a direct comparison with another amp, it's hard to say where it falls in the spectrum. Weirdly, I guess I've never had an amp built after about '88. Maybe I've really been missing out.

The look is hard for me to get past with these vintage amps. This one is such a beauty. Thanks for the vote on the speakers.

 

All the money into speakers first. Most people have never hear good speakers and have no idea what they really do. $1500 would get into the ball park of true audiophile speakers. I got my Gallo 3.1's refurbished for $1500. That's a $3000 speaker. Go used. Not saying you should get Gallos, but something. $350 speakers are not gonna be too revealing compared to what you could get.
If you are not into that, I would also recommend replacing the Project Debut with something else. I just built a system for someone with a debut Carbon and went thru two of them. They are nice entry level tables, but they are noisy tables when you are coming from a Rega P3-24 like I am. If you want BLACK backgrounds for your music, you don't know what you are missing until you get rid of the motor hum/rumble by getting a better table...especially for Jazz. And believe me, the noise is there even if you don't realize it yet. In fact I would say Speakers and Table both should be your next two upgrades.

And Cables are a cool upgrade...if you have a 10k system. I have had the opportunity to mess with a good deal of them and they are the absolute last place to put your money. Not saying you shouldn't, but you don't have the system to warrant it yet. There are big upgrades and tiny upgrades. Cables are tiny.

 

As far as vintage amps are concerned, the nicest one I've heard so far is the Scott 299B integrated amp, all tube from around 1961. Has a great MM phono section. Have also owned several other vintage tube amps, including the Marantz 8b, the Fisher 500 and the Dynaco 70/PAS 3. The little 'Scottie' has a very low noise floor, great dynamics and is downright pretty. Measures at 20 watts a side but like most all-tube amps, sounds more powerful than that.

 

This is a great response- thanks. I'm with you in the apprciation for the old Pioneers. They're such beautiful objects. It would be a shame for it to have to leave the main set up, but so be it.

I'm actually using a nearfield set up as well- and you're right, getting the speakers placement dialed in made a giant difference. I definitely have a decent soundstage now, I'm just looking for how to best get things to the next place. Though maybe I'm needlessly being an upgradey audio dude.

You're the second vote on cables. I'll have to seriously weigh that option. Do you think speakers lines and component interconnects are of about equal importance, or should I be looking to skew spending towards one or the other?

Your final plan is very appealing. I've read a bit on the Rogues and they seem very well regarded. I'll do some further reading and mulling. Thanks again.

 

I appreciate the vote, thanks!