Please help me spend $1000 - $1500

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by 4140, Oct 26, 2014.

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  1. GuildX700

    GuildX700 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    "I listen to jazz vinyl 98% of the time"

    A quality phono preamp & record cleaner for sure. Regardless of other decisions.

    Once you get that sorted out, consider speakers with a bit more bottom end, that can reproduce a clean, if not still low volume bottom end while still giving a good mid/high end.

    I'd hate to recommend a powered sub, but in your case with your current speakers it might just be the ticket. I'm not saying silly bass output, but enough to make your jazz vinyl sound more balanced for pace and feel with the low end driving things the way it should.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2014
  2. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eagle, ID, USA
    I don't want to discourage you from trying/getting one of these, I still think it's an excellent idea - I just wanted to make sure you understood that my recommendation was from reading (today) only ... I have not heard the Sphinx nor any Rogue equipment. That said, the more expensive (and all tubed) Cronus Magnum seems to be universally praised as well. I couldn't remember how much it cost and looked on the Rogue site, seeing the Sphinx in your price range got me going on that.

    I had strongly considered their Metis and Perseus preamps before 'splurging' even more on a McIntosh C220 several years ago (since sold to help pay for my daughter's wedding!). Without hearing either of them, I sort of figured the C220 was something like the Perseus sonically but with lots of convenience features (which added considerably to the cost, and which I now consider almost essential!).

    Having tubes in the system 'somewhere' seems to me to be a good thing, as I said ... that, along with ICs/speaker cables and other things, can help you 'flavor' the system exactly to your liking. I strongly suspect that the stock tubes in the Sphinx sound good (and are reliable, available in large quantities, measure well and consistently, and probably most importantly, their manufacturer has reached a very good 'deal' with Rogue) ... but may not be the 'last word' in overall sonics. The Gold Lions I recommended are (again) almost universally praised as one of the best new production 'inexpensive' (<$100 for a matched pair) preamp tubes around. I finalized on the 12AX7 version of these in my C220, the improvement over the stock tubes was small in the overall scheme of things, but definitely not subtle.

    Oh yes! and HELL yes ... about the powered sub (posted as I was composing this). The Sphinx has a variable output that will work perfectly for this (and you can get it later, of course). Possibly Music Hall can recommend one to 'match' your speakers (probably with some profanities and couple wee drams of good Scotch if you talk to Roy Hall himself!).

    Good luck in your quest, and good night!
     
  3. 4140

    4140 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Thanks for the tip. Those really do seem to be very well reviewed, and that price is out of sight. They mention having an at-home audition period available- I may very well take advantage of that. I live in a small bungalow, and want to be sure those can be integrated, size-wise. Thanks again.
     
    gregr likes this.
  4. 4140

    4140 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Thanks for the thought. I believe you may very well be correct about size being very important in regards to speakers. Seems that to get a comparable sound from smaller speakers, it really demands a bigger budget. I could well be wrong. Anyhow- thanks again.
     
  5. 4140

    4140 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Interesting points, thanks for that. I had never considered a subwoofer, and really know nothing about them. I'll give them some study and thought- thanks again.
     
    Rick58 likes this.
  6. 4140

    4140 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis
    I appreciate the clarification. I do think you're on the rig track with the Rogue - I've read up on them a fair bit, and response is so favorable. I think since I'm also a little hesitant to fully commit to tubes, the hybrid may be a nice toe in the water. I'm not bananas about the looks, and if I do go with a Rogue I will miss my wood grain and mellow blue read-out. But, I imagine I could spruce up my listening spot with some ferns and macrame and retain my vintage vibe. Thanks again.
     
    Rick58 likes this.
  7. Baron Von Talbot

    Baron Von Talbot Well-Known Member

    Unless you are willing to spend all on a new TT or speakers I#d recommend the tip with the Phono Pre and subwoofer. not sure what your power supply is but that's always a fine place to start - get a 2 or 3 hundred dollar power bar that lets you connect your HiFi gear. A RWM is always good to have esp. if you got a large collection and records, that may stay in their jackets for years between plays or you buy second hand LP's.
    If you want a superior TT try Thorens new TD 206/209, hard to find anything, that plays so much more involving, noise free, precise and open than your average Pro-Ject, Technics or used Dual - it is more or less at the level of the REGA RP6 but is a tad more affordable. For speakers I think bookshelves are best for your room- Try KEF LS 50's or Sonus faber - Venere 1.5. You don't need a sub with those . I doubt you will get better sound quality from Towers unless you can pay 2 grand or more on new gear.
    Used gear is a whole different ballpark and I am not familiar with what's hot in the US atm.
     
    GuildX700 likes this.
  8. KOWHeigel

    KOWHeigel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Manlius, NY
    Used Rega Brio-R and a used pair of Dynaudio Excite X12's ... both can be had used for under your budget and are a taste of a true modern hi-fi imho.
     
  9. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista

    Location:
    Texas
    You can very likely get a pair of $3,500-$4,000 speakers on the used market for your $1,500. I would do that and never look back. The rest of your gear is quite nice for now and this will open up the music MUCH more for you than any other upgrade. THEN when you decide to start on improving the other pieces you'll be able to hear the improvement. Just my 2 cents.
     
  10. DaveC113

    DaveC113 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Front Range CO
    Omega speakers are spectacular for the type of music and volumes you listen at.
     
  11. padreken

    padreken Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego
    You've gotten some great advice in this this thread so far-here's my 2 cents.

    Heartily second all the recs for an upgraded phono stage-I bought my Musical Surroundings Phonomena II a couple of of years ago and it continues to impress, every sonic advantage of my recent turntable upgrade (Pro-ject Xtension 10) was instantly apparent with the Phonomena.

    The Magnepan MMG is an amazing bargain, but planar speakers need a lot of room to breathe. I haven't heard your Marimbas but they are well thought of. Among dynamic speakers, Monitor Audio, Focal, Wharfedale, KEF, PSB and Dali all make excellent sounding speakers at reasonable prices.

    You have an excellent phono cartridge-a better turntable will help push the envelope of your cart, although the Pro-ject is a fine budget table. A Rega RP3 or RP6, VPI Traveler or Scout or Pro-ject Xpression Carbon will give you you better musical flow and stronger and better defined bass.

    Buy used to get the most bang for your buck-I have personally have had good experiences on Audiogon. Audiophiles are constantly upgrading, my Pro-ject Xtension 10 looked new when I took it out of the crate and saved $1100 over retail.
     
  12. 4140

    4140 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Cool- thanks for the tips, I appreciate it.
     
  13. 4140

    4140 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Awesome- thanks. I'll look into those options.
     
    Baron Von Talbot likes this.
  14. 4140

    4140 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Thanks for the thought. I think you're in good company- speakers seem to be the most recommended path, followed by integrateds.
     
  15. 4140

    4140 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Thanks for the tip. Those are nice looking speakers, and seem to be at the right price point- I'll do some reading up on them...
     
  16. 4140

    4140 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis
    This is a lot of great stuff- thank you for all of it. I have a few very enjoyable evenings of research ahead of me...
     
  17. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista

    Location:
    Texas
    Good luck my friend and above all, enjoy the ride and the music!
     
    4140 likes this.
  18. VinylRob

    VinylRob Forum Resident

    As you have a nice little kit, I will ask a question.
    How many records do you own?... if the answer is less than four digits,
    proceed to the local record store with the whole wad of cash and spill it!
    You will never regret this choice.

    Happy Listening! and you might look for an original copy of Eric Burdon & War- Eric Burdon declares "War"
    with "Spill the Wine" on it. MGM Records SE 4663 1970 if you don't already have a copy.
     
    timztunz and gregr like this.
  19. rl1856

    rl1856 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SC
    $1500 puts you at the crossroads, with many choices of what to buy.

    My opinion is that you should use the money as a building block, incrementally improving your system as time and budget allow. The key is to make sure that each improvement builds upon previous improvements.

    Your speakers, TT and cartridge are just fine for now. I think the Pioneer receiver is your weakest link and will limit ultimate fidelity if you upgrade other parts of your system first. Given your preferance for Jazz and a desire for soundstage, musicality etc, I think you would be well served by Tubes.

    Since vinyl is your primary source, a good phone stage should be a priority. I would purchase a good outboard phono stage such as the Project Phono Box or Musical Fidelity M1 LPs / both at about $500.

    http://www.musicdirect.com/p-257189-pro-ject-phono-box-ds43-black-photo-shoot.aspx

    http://www.musicdirect.com/p-207433-musical-fidelity-m1-lps-mmmc-phono-preamp-black-photo-shoot.aspx

    That leaves amplification.

    Vintage or modern ?

    A restored Fisher 500c or Fisher intergrated amplifier would be just about perfect for your needs. Many are available, fully restored, for less than $1000.

    A fully restored Dynaco ST-70 / Pas 3 combination would be less than $1000. You may be able to find a VanAlstine Pas 3 which is a wonderful rebuild and improvement of the origional design.

    All of the above would sound sublime playing into the Marimba. My experience is that small monitor speakers, with easy crossover loads, are well matched to vintage amplifiers.

    On the modern side, there are several choices from Jolida and Icon Audio to consider.

    http://www.musicdirect.com/p-13615-jolida-jd302crc-integrated-tube-amp.aspx?source=igodigital&

    http://www.musicdirect.com/p-13635-jolida-jd102crc-integrated-tube-amp.aspx?source=igodigital&

    http://www.musicdirect.com/p-138509-icon-audio-stereo-20-pp-tube-integrated-amp.aspx

    As for cables, entry level Kimber, Cardas or Audio Quest would be sufficient for now.

    Good Luck.
     
    gregr likes this.
  20. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista

    Location:
    Texas
    Brilliant advice!
     
    Ntotrar likes this.
  21. DaveC113

    DaveC113 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Front Range CO
    A SET amp is good paired with the right speakers, but you could also get a Crown XLS 1500 and just not worry about amplification right now, the Crown is ridiculously good for the money and on my Omega speakers sounds nearly identical to a very nice SET amp I have that would cost 10x the price of the Crown... I got the Crown for $262 new on ebay. If you pair the Crown with a good tube phono section, Omega speakers and Speed 12 sub you'll have a system that will be shockingly good and fits your preferences and listening perfectly.
     
    beowulf likes this.
  22. beowulf

    beowulf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chula Vista, CA
    I think this would be a very special system and show you what tubes and high efficiency speaker can do.

    1. Amplifier = Deware Zen Triode - $895 (2 watt, point to point hand wired, Single Ended Triode with inputs for 2 sources and volume control)
    2. Speakers = Omega Super 3U - $795 (94.5 at 8 ohms monitors)
    3. Phono Stage = Lounge Audio LCR Phono Preamp - $300

    Total $1990 ... a little over budget, but all hand made in the USA and it would be a great foundation to build upon and dip your toes into. Then add a subwoofer and better cables as budget allows.
     
  23. 4140

    4140 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis
    You know, I imagine I'm right about at 4 digits. Even so, I think you're making a fine suggestion here. Dropping a thousand bucks on something is a big to-do for me, but I somehow could fritter away that same money on $3 trinkets with frightening ease.

    I don't have that War album, but I'm a fan. I lived in LA briefly, and War was heavy rotation. They really mesh well with driving around that town.

    Have you heard this one?

    [​IMG]

    I don't quite remember the lineage, but I think it's one or two of the guys maybe a little before War proper got it together. Anyway, sort of shorter, funky instrumentals. Really, pretty good and a fun listen. Anyhow, thanks for the tip
     
    VinylRob likes this.
  24. 4140

    4140 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Thank you so much for the very detailed and well-considered response. I'm not sure I'm ready to jump fully in to a tube set up, but I am seriously considering the Rogue Sphinx as my next move. Do you have any thoughts on that? I'll do some reading up on your suggestions. Again, thank you.
     
  25. 4140

    4140 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Thank you for the advice. I don't know anything about Crown, but that price is an eye-grabber. I'll certainly do some looking into those. Thanks again.
     
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