PONO Feedback? Anyone have one yet?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Ephi82, Nov 6, 2014.

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  1. That makes sense as the Pono isn't a phone and doesn't have networking capabilities.
     
  2. The "storage locker" analogy has been poor and it's not easy to understand, going back to when Ultraviolet starting referring to a "digital rights locker." They should just call it the "cloud" and everyone will know what they mean.
     
  3. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Doh, this is harsh:

    Gizmodo/Mario Aguilar
    Don't Buy What Neil Young Is Selling

    Here are Aguilar's main points:

    • The Science Doesn't Make Sense (he feels that nobody can hear the difference between a 44.1kHz/16-bit file and a high-res file)

    and

    • The Hardware Is Unnecessary (hard to argue with)

    It's an interesting piece, but I think it avoids the main issue that at least the high-res files are lossless and will measure better than a lossy file under some conditions. I think the article is cooked up to create controversy, though some of the points have merit.
     
  4. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    That Gizmodo hack job was written by a lazy reporter who got book-smart over at xiph.org, has never listened to a PonoPlayer, has never listened to a PonoMusic high-res file, probably has never listened to a high-res album of any sort, admitted that $80 Grados are good enough and that he has some $300 headphones that were chosen for their durability and style rather than sound quality. And this is someone who wants to lecture on sound quality? What an absolute ass of hack and an embarrassment to any tech review publication. How do you manage to do a review or comment on gear or audio that you have never seen, heard, used, or experienced?

    The PonoPlayer is necessary because it needs to prove a point. There is nothing else like it for $400 (or even $600) that sounds like it. It needs to prove a point that things can sound better. It sounds like high end audio. For many people it will be their first taste of what high end audio sound can be like. Its sound quality difference from something like an iPod is obvious. The sound quality difference really is obvious.
     
    N.T.Wrong, SammyU, jfeldt and 3 others like this.
  5. And now for something completely different: any indication that Pono will bring back the Kickstarter silver color?
     
  6. Greenears

    Greenears Active Member

    @Havoc Forgive my ignorance, but is the Oasis remaster higher or lower dynamic range than the previous release?
     
  7. Havoc

    Havoc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Poland
    Oddly enough, they are pretty close but they were awful to begin with. I think the consensus is that Noel wanted everything cranked so that's what we got. I guess the remasters are just a little worse on DR but not by a lot.
     
  8. All of Oasis' albums are so poorly mastered that I had no reluctance whatsoever to buy the deluxe greatest hits and video comp from iTunes. I try not to buy stuff with lossy compression, but I figured that the songs are never going to sound good and with 60-odd tracks for $20-odd bucks, it was a no-brainer.
     
    Havoc and pablorkcz like this.
  9. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    There's a good professionally done review of the PonoPlayer by Michael Lavorgna over at AudioStream
    http://www.audiostream.com/content/pono-player

    He gets it. He understands.

    His assessment or description of the sound is that the tone is right. Sounds right, natural, and real. My own assessment or description would be that the soundstage (or headstage for headphone listening) is set-back and open. Which presents the sound in a way that can be right, natural, and real. It is a different way of presenting the sound compared to most digital gear. And that's the most apparent and unique and special aspect of the PonoPlayer's sound. It's the type of sonic presentation that audiophile gear might choose to do. Very surprising to have consumer oriented gear attempt to do that type of sonic presentation. Which to me is something that makes the PonoPlayer special and makes it obvious why it had to be made. Because consumer players haven't tried to do this style of sound before. Neil had to make the PonoPlayer because no-one else in the market has or will.
     
    mgb70 likes this.
  10. Master_It_Right

    Master_It_Right Forum Resident

    I agree with his first point about lossless 16/44.1. As for the hardware, has the author listened on one? I haven't, so I can't say if it's worth $400 or not. I will wait until I hear a Pono before I $@#! on it.
     
    Vidiot likes this.
  11. brimuchmuze

    brimuchmuze Forum Resident

    How about the Geek Wave?
     
  12. simon-wagstaff

    simon-wagstaff Forum Resident

    I'm sure glad this thread hasn't turned into a "nobody can hear the difference" thing.
     
  13. Master_It_Right

    Master_It_Right Forum Resident

    I would debate that point but the mods have warned before not to do that - so... If 24/96 or whatever makes people happy then keep buying it.
     
  14. Havoc

    Havoc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Poland
    Yep, I'll pretty much buy any deluxe thingy they put out with the full understanding that the source recordings will scorch my ears so no amount of trickery will really change things for the better. They recorded it to be loud, it is loud......it is just that way so with that knowledge.....when's The Masterplan and Be Here Now comin' out? :bdance:
     
  15. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    I haven't heard it. I don't know if it will have a set-back style of presentation or not. Probably not.
    The Geek Wave is also priced higher. $500 for the base model. $1000 and more for the rest. A little beyond consumer pricing and well into the range that normal people consider absolutely crazy.
     
  16. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Thank you. I refer you to this quote:

    "Compared to my iPhone 5S, the Pono Player delivers music while the iPhone delivers a reasonable facsimile thereof. Missing with the iPhone is the wonderful tone, the resolution or ability to hear into the recording, and that natural sounding presentation. Instead, you get a thinner, flatter, more anemic sound. The result being a less engaging experience, the ultimate sound quality of the output is limited by the iPhone's innards."
     
  17. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    Should've bought the Sony Xperia Z1 Compact...
     
  18. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    Location:
    los angeles
    that kind of jumped out at me as well...
     
  19. Master_It_Right

    Master_It_Right Forum Resident

    I can't stand when people crap on something without hearing it first.
     
  20. T'mershi Duween

    T'mershi Duween Forum Resident

    Location:
    Y'allywood
    But... the anti-audiophile crowd will argue until they're blue in the face that pretty much all digital is equal and more than adequate for music. Basically, any source that plays the ones and zeros back in the right order is "good enough". Any further benefits that are derived from better gear is all in our head. That above description of consumer digital audio devices probably applies to 90% of the gear they listen to music on.
     
  21. GregK

    GregK I'm speechless

    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    who should have??
     
  22. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    I followed on from the experience Metralla had recanted. Can recommend the Z1 Compact though.
     
  23. Ephi82

    Ephi82 Still have two ears working Thread Starter

    Location:
    S FL
    can you explain to me what is in the PONO design that creates a soundstage that is "set back and open"? You seem to suggest that this was a specific design goal and it differentiates this device from others?
     
    Master_It_Right likes this.
  24. Ephi82

    Ephi82 Still have two ears working Thread Starter

    Location:
    S FL
    Please note that my previous post was not meant to be snarky.

    I like the concept of PONO, and I believe that it is a high quality player because of the DAC and the analog amp stage. This probably is the BIG difference maker as opposed to the digital resolution.

    I sincerely want to know if there is more to the PONO than I realize? (ie Set back and open?)
     
  25. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    I don't know what in the design of the player causes the set-back style of soundstage presentation. It may be part of the DAC section. It may be part of the amp section. I don't know. I don't know anything about electronics design and how to design and amp or DAC to have that sort of sound. I just know some amps and some DACs have that sort of sound while many don't. Typically it's high-end equipment that has that sort of sound. Very unusual for consumer electronics equipment to have that sort of sound.

    A set-back soundstage presentation refers to having it sound like you're several rows back from the stage. A normal headphone presentation is much more forward and sounds like your head is right at the front of the stage. Set-back makes it seem like you're farther back. A set-back soundstage (or what some call headstage) like on the PonoPlayer creates an illusion of a semicircular presentation that goes from your ears around the front of your head. Instead of the sound seeming to be centered at or between your ears the sound is instead centered at your temples and near your forehead. It creates a much more spacious headstage that has more room for depth of imaging.

    What I'm describing as open sound is a sort of sound that allows the ear cups to sound very open. Even listening on closed headphones still has the illusion of an open sound that extends beyond the ear cups. It's the sort of openness that can make it possible for the ear cups to disappear.

    A set-back and open sound with headphones is something normally reserved for select high-end gear. It is not the sort of sound I expected at all from a $400 portable player. I've heard that sort of sound from $4000 headphone amps and $3000 headphone amps. I've never heard it from a $400 amp/dac portable player.

    The set-back and open sound presentation creates a headstage that can envelop your head and surround you. There is space. You're listening to sound in space rather than sound drivers pumping sound at you. It's the sort of sound that allows music to wash over you instead of being pumped at you. It's the difference between listening to music at a dance club or on a muscular home theater setup vs. listening to music on a nice high-end audiophile full range electrostatic speaker setup.

    Neil Young made a comment during his presentation at SXSW that high-res is like getting hit by a cool mist while low-res and MP3 is like getting hit by ice cubes. The sound from the PonoPlayer is also following in that. The sound from the PonoPlayer is like getting hit by a cool mist. There are no ice cubes, even when listening to low res or MP3. Listening to the PonoPlayer is like sitting back and getting hit by a cool mist as the sound washes over you. That's the intrinsic sound of the player. It's relaxed listening. You can listen loud for hours and your ears won't get fatigued. The sound doesn't pump at you. The sound washes over you. The flip side is that the sound isn't aggressive and forward. If you're listening to music to get yourself pumped up before you run out onto a football field to kick some ass then this is the wrong player to be listening to. However, if you're going to listen to classical music or listen to Neil Young sing "Powderfinger" or Eric Clapton's "Unplugged" then this is a player you might want to be listening to.

    I don't know if any of this makes sense. This sort of sound presentation experience is difficult to explain in words. It's something you need to experience. Then you'll know. The things I'm trying to describe will be obvious. The difference between the music listening experience on the PonoPlayer and something like an iPhone will be obvious. One will be flat and forward. The other will be spacious, and set-back, and enveloping. One will be pleasant to listen to for hours and hours at loud volume. The other will not.

    A few additional comments about gear that has this sort of set-back and open sound. Synergy with the headphones is key. Some headphones will have the right synergy and some won't. High-end gear tends to need synergy to sound right. This is $400 consumer electronics gear with some high-end DNA. It needs careful synergy too to sound right. So try a variety of good headphones. Some will work and some won't. Better headphones are more likely to work well. Headphones that are better able to fill in the center of the headstage image are more likely to work well. Headphones that don't image well will probably sound thin in the center. Thin sound with the PonoPlayer is a clue to buy better headphones or to seek better synergy.
     
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