Post photos of your systems/rooms here! (Part 15)

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Halloween Jack, Mar 28, 2015.

  1. NoDad

    NoDad Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Santa Rosa CA
    Very nice. Haven't seen B&O like that for a long time. It is B&O right?
     
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  2. Donniej

    Donniej Senior Member

    Awesome! Love the green
     
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  3. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    It IS a longer shaft diamond. That is the entire point.

    One diamond with a long shaft is better than having some kind of metal shaft attached to the cantilever and then having a small diamond "tip" attached to that metal shaft.

    It is far better that there is only one single "diamond" that is attached to the cantilever.

    All of the Ortofon 2M cartridges that are a step up from the Red, incorporate a single diamond design.

    More expensive cartridges have a stylus with a more exotic cut diamond top.

    Both the Red and the Blue stylus share the same cartridge body.

    The difference between the Bronze and the Black cartridge is only the cut of the diamond.

    While you would not think that this could make much of a significant difference, it does. And these upgrades do not come cheap (except when upgrading from the Red to the Blue, let's not say cheap, but say, relatively inexpensive).

    As an example, when I bought my TT as a preowned unit, it came with the 2M Bronze cartridge, which has the Bronze stylus on it.

    To buy the Bronze cartridge and stylus on Amazon, costs $439.

    [​IMG]

    Now, if I want to upgrade to the Black level, since they both use the same cartridge body, I only need to buy the Black stylus, which is called a Shibata stylus, because of the cut and quality of the diamond used.

    To buy the Black stylus on Amazon, costs $576.

    [​IMG]

    When I take my Bronze stylus off and replace it with the Black stylus, I now have the Ortofone 2M Black cartridge and stylus.

    This is my vintage Thorens turntable with my 2M Black cartridge and stylus.

    [​IMG]

    You do understand it perfectly!

    Upgrading to the Blue stylus will be the best, easiest and most inexpensive upgrade that you can make for your present system.

    The diamond only rides in the record groves and picks up the vibrations from inside of the grooves that are made as the turntable rotates.

    The diamond does not convert these vibrations into an electrical signal.

    It only transmits these vibrations to the cantilever, which transfers these vibrations to the magnet(s) at the end of the cantilever.

    The vibrations of this "moving magnet" close to a fixed coil(s) of wire, up inside of the cartridge body, create the electrical current, which is then further amplified.

    See the diagram!

    Having one single diamond to transfer these vibrations directly to the cantilever, is what give a nude stylus design a big advantage to a diamond which is bonded to a metal shaft, which is then bonded to the cantilever.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
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  4. MisterNines

    MisterNines Distinguished Member in Residence

    Location:
    St. Louis, MO USA
    Thanks!

    PPG from the 1955 Frank Lloyd Wright palette.

    Wright Spring Green #FLLW396

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. MisterNines

    MisterNines Distinguished Member in Residence

    Location:
    St. Louis, MO USA
    I do now!
     
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  6. MisterNines

    MisterNines Distinguished Member in Residence

    Location:
    St. Louis, MO USA
    So the Nude eliminates the "middleman" shaft - therefore allowing a more direct path to the cantilever?

    ...and the composition of the cantilever can be metal [e.g., aluminum; beryllium] or possibly another stone [e.g., ruby; sapphire]?
     
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  7. MisterNines

    MisterNines Distinguished Member in Residence

    Location:
    St. Louis, MO USA
    I love the Diagram!

    I saved a copy - for my reference - to my Cartridge-Stylus file.


    DIAGRAM BY SandAndGlass
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Yes, that is completely correct! You WIN one of these! :nauga:

    Different materials transmit vibrations differently and also have a different mass.

    and then there is some kind of bonding agent (glue) which is between the bonded diamond and the shaft.

    So there is, diamond, bonding agent, shaft, cantilever.

    With the "nude", there is diamond, cantilever.

    No changes in material densities. What vibrations the tip of the diamond picks up, are faithfully transmitted directly to the cantilever.

    The cantilever now can reproduce these vibrations more accurately.
     
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  9. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    While I appreciate the most sincere complement. I looked up on Google for an illustration so that I could use said illustration to better explain what is happening and to show you the major parts of a moving magnet type of phone cartridge.

    As it happened, the diagram that I located on Google, was from the U-Turn people, who made your turn table.

    If you can't believe you turntable's manufacturer, who can you believe?

    If you look back, I did give them the credit that they deserve for their truly creative and innovative artistic work.

    Besides, I don't draw the well! :p

    Just keep this in the back of your mind when you are ready for your next system upgrade.
     
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  10. Kostas

    Kostas Forum Resident

    Location:
    Athens,GR.
    Ortofon mentions that physically all styluses ft but they are suggesting that red is interchangeable with blue & bronze with black.

    Stylus 2M Black
     
  11. jonwoody

    jonwoody Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington DC
    You posted this twice I see so I'll bite. What troubling things have you heard? I would caution if they were from tequila take them with a grain of salt. :D
     
  12. Don Parkhurst

    Don Parkhurst Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Hahaha! Well said : )
     
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  13. MisterNines

    MisterNines Distinguished Member in Residence

    Location:
    St. Louis, MO USA
    Logical.

    Thank you for illustrating this so clearly.


    I forgot about the bonding agent.

    Isn't a glue required with the Nude?


    When I was purchasing my 1974 Shure V15 III [different sport], I knew that if the cartridge was perhaps oxidized - but not damaged - it would work as originally designed.

    But the epoxy on a N.O.S. stylus might be subject to deterioration.
     
  14. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Yes, the Red, Blue, Bronze and Black stylus will fit either the Red/Blue cartridge body or the Bronze/Black cartridge body.

    There are to different with four different stylus combinations.

    While you can put the least expensive "Red" stylus on the most expensive Bronze/Black cartridge body.

    It make no sense to do so.

    However, there is a reason to put the Blue stylus, which is a nude elliptical design on the Bronze/Black body. Different members do that for a specific reason.

    Those who listen to vintage records that were made back in the 1960's and 1970's, were often played back with people who had nice turntables that had cartridges that were equipped with a stylus that was an elliptical type design.

    No one that I knew back in those days was using other more advanced design, like the nude fine line design of the Bronze stylus or the Shibata design of the Black stylus.

    While many records from this era do sound nice and even exceptional with these more advanced stylus design's, there are many that do not.

    So, by putting the Blue nude elliptical design in the Bronze/Black cartridge body, you have the benefit of a better cartridge body design along with an elliptical style stylus that better matches the vintage period.

    The Red stylus is their entry level elliptical stylus and it is just that, their entry level stylus. If an upgrade is made ti the Blue nude elliptical stylus, you will get better performance out of the Red/Blue cartridge body.

    That is a significant improvement, without having to spend $439 to upgrade to the Bronze cartridge body and stylus.

    To buy a new Black cartridge with the Black Shibata stylus would cost $750 (on Amazon Prime).

    [​IMG]

    IMO, the Red stylus that the OP is currently using is by far the most limiting factor in his otherwise excellent system.

    This is why I stepped up to offer my decidedly unsolicited system upgrade suggestion.

    Here is a link to a page on the Soundsmith web site which may offer some further explanation and videos.

    From Audio Technica:

    Here are some close up drawings of the tip of different stylus types.

    [​IMG]

    From JICO:

    [​IMG]
    1. Spherical
    2. Elliptical
    3. Shibata
    4. Hyper elliptical
    5. SAS (Special micro ridge type)

    And we can now return back to the subject of the thread...
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
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  15. MisterNines

    MisterNines Distinguished Member in Residence

    Location:
    St. Louis, MO USA
    Actually, I've got a Dual 1229.

    ...funny that you mentioned U-Turn - I just gave away one of those.

    I wanted to like it, but a friend liked it more.
     
  16. MisterNines

    MisterNines Distinguished Member in Residence

    Location:
    St. Louis, MO USA
    "I did give them the credit that they deserve for their truly creative and innovative artistic work."

    Yes you did!

    Now with accurate attribution:

    [graphic courtesy of U-Turn Audio]
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    OK, Now lets let our member's and reader's get back to the subject of the thread! :love:
     
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  18. souladdikt

    souladdikt Forum Resident

    Location:
    IL
    Please post pictures of said Dual in your lovely home to bring us back to the subject of this thread. :D
     
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  19. MisterNines

    MisterNines Distinguished Member in Residence

    Location:
    St. Louis, MO USA
    ...only 'cause you asked:
    [​IMG]

    (tryin' to lay low, since I got so carried away with Cartridge/Stylus!)
     
  20. timind

    timind Don't blame me

    Location:
    Westfield, IN USA
    And a lemon wedge. :bdance:
     
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  21. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I have a couple of vintage Dual 1219's but they are not in service at present.

    I have two TT's currently in service, a modern Rega RP6 that has been upgraded and a Vinyl Nirvana Thorens TD-160 Super, with a Rega arm.

    [​IMG]
     
  22. MisterNines

    MisterNines Distinguished Member in Residence

    Location:
    St. Louis, MO USA
    ...and because nobody asked (but because I love y'guys...and want some forgiveness for gettin' deep in the weeds over y'all's gear!).

    Back on topic:

    Some of these were previously posted on a thread called "TV or no TV!?"

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  23. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Your listening room with your fireplace and TV are totally awesome! I like all of the natural wood and the rock!

    And let's not forget your Eames chair. Great room to have one to relax in.
     
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  24. heyMo

    heyMo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Charlotte
    Gorgeous room!! Well done!
     
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  25. MisterNines

    MisterNines Distinguished Member in Residence

    Location:
    St. Louis, MO USA
    Thank you.
     
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