Power conditioner making sound worse

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Puma Cat, Apr 19, 2009.

  1. Glen B

    Glen B New Member

    Location:
    USA
    IMO, good for computers and peripherals, horrible for any decent audio system. I've used a similar UPS in the past with my digital cable boxes to save from having to deal with the annoying several minutes of reboot time it takes when AC power is cut off, but that's was the extent of it. A number of people swear by the APC H-15, which is designed for use with A/V systems. I've seen pictures of the innards and it has some pretty robust looking common-mode chokes for noise filtration on each outlet bank, so the unit should hopefully not degrade sound. You're probably better off with something like that.

    http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=H15
     
  2. P2CH

    P2CH Active Member

    :righton:
     
  3. LouReed9

    LouReed9 Village Idiot

    Location:
    Philly Burbs
    Hmm. I get an error message when I click that link. I did get to the Richard Gray site via the link posted earlier but was confused as to which product was the "choke". This is what comes up:

    :confused:
    gray1.jpg
     
  4. AKA-Chuck G

    AKA-Chuck G Active Member

    Location:
    Washington NC
    Panamax has great products with a real equipment protection warranty if there is a failure. They have a nice layout that would prevent a wart HOG from hogging 2 inputs.

    The 2 Panamax 500 dbs component style (cheapest one now is $300) units I have had no negative effect that I can tell with my modest setup.

    http://www.panamax.com/Products/Floor-Models/M8-HT.aspx#tab_benefits
     
  5. AKA-Chuck G

    AKA-Chuck G Active Member

    Location:
    Washington NC
    The Richard Gray products are very nice no doubt, for the price is no object types. :D

    A good analogy would be Panamax = Blue Jeans Cables while Richard Gray = Cardas. :winkgrin:
     
  6. LouReed9

    LouReed9 Village Idiot

    Location:
    Philly Burbs
    Are any of those items pictured above a "choke"? I'm thinking not. I did see that they carry a "whole house" protector which is mounted at the breaker panel. I've been meaning to install one of those for years. Any opinions regarding these?
     
  7. P2CH

    P2CH Active Member

    Why has this thread gone in the way of a choke? Personally, I don't see the purpose of using a choke when it would be much better to use a line conditioner of some sort. Even an isolation transformer would be of better value, but again, you're looking at what it can handle in amperage.

    The APC unit looks a bit nicer than the Monster unit I have and I think the APC even does line regulation. As long as the current ablity is there, which I think it is, I would say go with that.

    It also has various outlets for multiple components.
     
  8. Paul K

    Paul K Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    How bout those of us who aren't about to spend a grand on this...what advice can anybody give us?
     
  9. triple

    triple Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Start saving and buy used. You will also need a power cord for your power conditioner and that link is the most important, so one needs to be willing to part with 1k one way or another. The alternative is to stay under that brackett and participate in endless debates about power conditioners that restrict dynamics, which cheap ones do.

    I am not trying to be harsh, it's just the way it is.

    Goran
     
  10. Blue Nile Fan

    Blue Nile Fan Member

    Location:
    Akron, Ohio
    O.K. so after reading this thread yesterday, I went home and unplugged my Onkyo IC amp from my Monster power strip (yes I have one of the ones pictured). I did not have time to play it much after I plugged it into the outlet. I guess what all is being said makes sense, but will there really be a lot of difference? My stuff is by no means audiophile, but it also certainly is not low grade by any means. What difference should I expect to hear? I have an Onkyo AR-V401 IC amp running into Dynaco A-25's. Sounded good before. If this tweak does work, it's the cheapest, and easiest one yet.

    Also, while I am at it, my amp has the "source direct" button. Is there any advantage in sound by going "source direct?" I use a BSR 3000 EQ, so I use no tone or treble or bass boost on the amp itself.

    Thanks forum,

    BNF
     
  11. Shawn1968

    Shawn1968 Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Hollywood, CA
    I mentioned this earlier, but I highly recommend the APC H15.

    http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=H15&tab=features

    I was able to buy mine new for under $150 (they had this price for the silver models). Not sure if they're still that cheap but I doubt you'd have to pay more than $200 - $300 if you look around.
     
  12. TONEPUB

    TONEPUB Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Buy a Shunyata Hydra 2 for $395 and their basic Venom cord for $99. Plug your preamplifier and CD player (or if you are a vinyl person, your preamp and phono pre) into it and plug the rest into the wall.

    Get a couple of their $99 Venom cords and substitute them one at a time in the rest of your system. Music Direct will let you return these if you are not satisfied and you don't trash the packaging.

    That's my suggestion.

    This is the best sounding, cost effective, high quality power conditioning solution I've heard.
     
  13. Paul K

    Paul K Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    So I shouldn't worry about surge protection? Sorry for the seemingly dumb questions...

    I realize that the unit I have the Jolida plugged into has a very low Surge Energy Rating...
     
  14. analogmaniac

    analogmaniac Member

    Location:
    California
    I have had great results with the Monster HTS 2000 & HTS1000. I have tried straight into the wall and through the conditioners and liked the Monsters better. I even plug my amp and subwoofer into it.
     
  15. P2CH

    P2CH Active Member

    I like the Monster unit I have as it contains a remote powered relay so I can trigger my power amp, and other devices, off of it instead of lugging down my main receiver's switched AC plug.

    My receiver now only powers the relay in the Monster and the Monster is connected to the wall for its own power requirements. It's timed delay too so your amp doesn't come on before the preamp does.
     
  16. I have the same unit connected to my stereo setup and totally recommend it, though the display's brightness becomes obnoxious unless you disable it completely. I have not noticed it degrading the sound quality of my system at all, though I really can not say I notice a difference in the other direction either.
     
  17. LeeS

    LeeS Tubes Rule

    Location:
    Atlanta
    ...and MusicDirect has it on special: http://www.musicdirect.com/product/74309
     
  18. riddlemay

    riddlemay Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Has anyone found voltage regulation (as found on the Panamax M-5400, for one) of value in terms of audio/video results? (Not talking about protection, but audio/video quality.) We don't experience brownouts or anything obvious like that, but I'm sure our voltage varies plus or minus several volts. Always wondered what benefits voltage regulation (supplying a constant 120 volts) would bring.
     
  19. 0luke1

    0luke1 New Member

    Location:
    Princeton, NJ, USA
    Here's a well thought out article that shows how to make a Shunyata hydra 2 like device for about $100. http://www.10audio.com/diy_power_conditioner.htm

    His dissection of the Shunyata unit confirmed my suspicion that things like "7-element venom filters" are anagrams for "things you can buy from the parts store for 1/7th the price," but the bottom-line is that it works.
     
  20. mwheelerk

    mwheelerk What Does That Mean?

    Location:
    Phoenix
  21. mwheelerk

    mwheelerk What Does That Mean?

    Location:
    Phoenix
    The idea behind Source Direct is that the signal bypasses and digital circuitry, remains in the analog domain and there fore reduces or eliminates noise that can be generated by that circuitry providing a "cleaner" sound. I have always used this function but the only time I tried to do any A/B comparisons I must admit I found little if any noticeable difference.
     
  22. mwheelerk

    mwheelerk What Does That Mean?

    Location:
    Phoenix
    +1 on the PS Audio quality, performance and value. :righton:
     
  23. Kimo

    Kimo New Member

    The Venom cords also do a nice job with flat screen televisions. They are fully shielded, if that is important.
     
  24. GP

    GP Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Lynbrook, NY
    I've just started using a Liebert GXT2-1500RT120 on an experimental basis, with interesting results. The Liebert is supposedly a true 'online' UPS that continuously conditions and regulates the output voltage, and supplies connected equipment with clean sinewave power. These Liebert units probably have better build quality than most power conditioners on the market, and there's someone on eBay selling these for about $60 a pop...probably worth a try at least. You'd need to replace the stock case fans with quieter ones though.

    Usually I go back to plugging directly into the wall after awhile, but we'll see what happens with the Liebert.

    I own a Monster HTS-3500 which I think is fine for video, but sucks the life out of anything audio related, IMO. If you just need extra outlets, I've found the Wiremold powerstrip to be a much better choice.
     
  25. McGruder

    McGruder Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    This is good advice. Shunyatta Hydra power distributors are the only power line conditioner/protection that I've ever used that do not squash dynamics even when using high current amps. Prior to that, I always ended up plugged into the wall socket comforted only by my insurance policy for protection. I'd stop short of saying the Hydra makes my system sound better, but they do not hurt the sound. I've verified this with several other amps I've owned and plugged into my Hydra 6's which I've owned for 3 years now. All Hydra models can deliver the same 2400 Watts unregulated, 20A continuous / 50A peak current. I only wish the chassis was a little more stout to dampen resonances. They're not cheap, however - but you get what you pay for. Don't skimp on the power chord either.
     

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