Power conditioner making sound worse

I'm probably going to go with the PS Audio Duet, seems to be a great value for the money. I am going to get a cyro'd one from CryoParts. What I can't tell, though, is if it comes with an AC power cord.

 

It does come with its own Power Cord. It is a reasonable standard cable but a step up into the PS Audio (whatever model replaced the Punch) might be beneficial. Regardless I think this is an excellent choice and one of those true values in audio equipment given the price versus performance obtained.

 

What are everyone's thoughts on Richard Grey's Power Company products? I've been using the RGPC 400 that looks very similar to the current RGPC 400 Pro with great results for a few years now.

 

PC, I use PS Audio for may system and it makes a small but noticable improvement. I will be very interested in what you think of the cryo units.

 

I found their products adequate but to my mind overpriced for the performance they give. I had some in my system for a while (the 400 as well as the Pole Pig) but eventually went with BPT and PS Audio as more bang for the buck.

John K.

 

Just thought I'd follow up and mention that I don't think using a Liebert UPS for audio is a good idea, unless you don't care how it affects your sound, that is. The Liebert passes noise and distortion through its outputs when connected to the mains supply, and when disconnected seems to sound its cleanest running purely on battery power.

The Liebert and other UPSes have been mentioned favorably on other audio-related forums, but some of these people are using a 2-4k line conditioner after the Liebert. So much for a one-box solution.

Can't speak for the Tripp-Lite, APC, CyberPower or other UPS units, but I wouldn't be tempted to try them at this point.

 

Interesting John and thanks. I've never tried a PS Audio conditioner, but I was not impressed with what their power cords did in my system. Do you think it would still be worth a try in comparison guessing that it might be a step above BPT?

 

I am using the PS Audio Quintet and I would agree with the previous "more bang for the buck" comment.

 

I haven't been that impressed with most PS Audio power cords either. The current generation is supposed to be much better but I haven't had a chance to try one.

I would say that the Power Plant Premier is a step up from my BPT 2.5 Signature. I use the PPP on my audio system (except for the power amp) and the BPT for video. I got the BPT back before there was a PPP, and I couldn't bear the thought of the cost of the old Power Plant 1000 that I would have needed (the cost of the unit plus the cost of the electricity). I have tried the PPP with my video system, but it draws enough current to run the fan continuously, and in my small room the noise is intrusive, so I keep using the BPT.

John K.

 

Does anyone know anything about the Power-Save 1200? It's a box you install near your breaker box and it increases the "power factor" of the electricity in your house, to theoretically reduce electric bills. Also provides surge protection. I don't know electricity well enough to understand any of this but I was wondering if I can expect any change in the performance of my audio and video equipment, either for better or for worse.

 

Ever look up and notice the square, not so big, two terminal capacitors hanging on the power poles? That's what the power company is doing. Changing the timing relationship between voltage and current, which is distorted by the load, the maximize the delivery.

Electrical loads tend to be largely inductive. This changes the timing between the voltage swing and current pull. By measurement the utility can establish a base line of the "norm" and introduce a complimentary time lag to compensate and maximize to the customer the service.

By the nature of this, being further upstream with the averaging over greater numbers of customers, this makes sense. Unless your household load is consistantly inductive, introducing a lag would be kind of a crap shoot whether you'd hit the target of maximum delivery or not. That's why it's not common for the end customer other than in industrial situations.

CoolJazz

 

Thanks, CoolJazz.

 

If audio companies don't recomend using specialty power products, then why

the heck would anyone think they would need them? I would imagine the

compnents necessary to regulate power are built into the components.

Can you say cash grab?

 

Your resoning is faulty. Same theory why GM would want to save 5 cents whereever they can in their product.

 

Actually, take a peek at CES and look at how many companies use Running Springs or Shunyata in their setups. And if you pull most of them on the side, they use it at home as well.

The reason they don't outwardly "suggest" using power products is that they don't want the customer to think that they need to spend another 2-5000 on a power line conditioner to get the most out of their product, when in fact that's exactly what you need to do.

 

How bout "protecting thousands of dollars worth of equipment" - is that a valid reason?

 

Much as I love Naim, they used to say power cords were of no value until they started producing a $1000 power cord. Believe me, I torment my contacts at Naim to no end about this one...

 

Hey TONEPUB

Just now noticed – is that a ZERO 100 in your avatar?

First turntable I ever bought for myself, decades ago.

Wobbly headshell and all.

(Sorry for the off-topic)

 

Another question about the Power-Save 1200. Granted that it won't save me a dime on my electric bill, but another thing it promises to do is provide whole-house surge protection. Some of my equipment recommends against plugging into surge-protection power strips. Would it therefore be an equally bad idea, soundwise, to have whole-house surge protection? Or do these devices work a different way?

 

It's good enough reason for me. Power surges are not your friend.

 

No one has mentioned Furman products? These get great reviews and have made a positive improvement in the sound of my system for not too much $.

 

My own experience with Furman wasn't that great. I think they are definitely a quality built product but somehow seemed to deaden the sound in my system. I believe they are well known in professional audio circles including used on stage for live performances. I have no doubt they probably work very well for you and others though.

 

Tony, how would you describe the improvement with your PS Audio Power Plant Premiere, in your system? Thanks.

- Sushimaster

 

Pretty much what I expected based on my past experience with power system upgrades. When I first added the unit I noticed a very, very slight improvement in the lower registers of the sound, it was just a touch better defined. Remember, the PPP only handles my monoblocks, all my source gear (except the TT), my preamp and phono stage are run off of an older PS Audio P300. However, after using the PPP in my system for a couple of months I took it out of the system and I noticed a much bigger difference when I took it out. It was very noticeable that there was more background noise. Not a hum or static or anything like that, but the quiet passages in the music just did not seem as quiet as they were before.

I have no idea why power system changes almost always effect the sound that I hear this way. It makes it almost impossible for me to judge power system upgrades with a simple AB comparison listening session. I just do not hear that big of difference when they are first put into the system. There is one exception to this that I know of. The P300 allows me to change the shape of the power signal going into my front end components in 10 different ways! On some of the different settings I can hear the difference in the sound immediately.

This is a great example of how science cannot explain (at least not yet) what we hear. I completely understand how the PPP works and it is made up of very good science, but I cannot explain to you why it effects the sound the way that it does for me. I came to sound system upgrades (and in particular PS Audio) through the backdoor sort of. Because of the way power upgrades do not have a big impact on what I hear at first, I had tried several upgrades in the past and dismissed them as not worth it (and returned them). Then because of the rave review in Stereophile of the P300 and Music Direct's 30 day home trial period on any gear that they sell, I bought and tried the P300. When I played with the shape of the power signal and heard a difference (even though I run mine on a pure sine wave output) I decided it was doing something right that I had not heard before and kept it. Then about six or seven months after getting it I took it out of the system to do some rearranging and happened to turn the system back on without the P300 in it. I was stunned by what I heard and what was missing. IT was then that I started to realize how power system upgrades effect what I hear and that I do not seem to realize it at first.

I imagine that this is a some what longer answer than you expected.

 

Getting to this thread a bit late but it occurs to me, if the power on the line is "rich" in spurious harmonics, this could be where the "sparkle" heard without the Monster unit in line is coming from. The HTS-800 is then cleaning this up.

Whether one prefers the non-cleaned up version is a personal call of course.
I find similar commentary regarding a popular USB DAC that, in my experience, tends to add a lot of spuriae to the input signal. Many reviewers have raved about this unit and the "added detail" it provides. The only thing is, that "detail" isn't in the program material. It is by definition, harmonic distortion.

Now, if a given listener likes it, again, that's a personal call and I wouldn't argue with what gives any listener musical and sonic pleasure. But this should not be confused with an accurate rendition of the program material.

I have an HTS-800 too. And a few HTS-400s along with my main HTS-2000. These, the 2000 in particular, certainly do quiet down the "edge" coming from the wall --even with dedicated lines in the studio. Personally, I find this results in a more natural presentation from the systems in which I've tried them. (I use an HTS-400 for my laptop and interface on remote recording dates too.)

In contrast, a typical surge suppressor, as one might use with a computer, adds noise to the line. Some folks may like the resulting "edge".

Just my perspective.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com