Power Cord burn in

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by bajaed, Mar 17, 2018.

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  1. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    Power wiring inside your house also helps. The aluminum wire that was in my house was the noisiest wire I ever heard. And yes, I literally heard it through the music.
     
    rednedtugent likes this.
  2. swvahokie

    swvahokie Forum Resident

    40 sounds better.
     
  3. lonelysea

    lonelysea Ban Leaf Blowers

    Location:
    The Cascades
    Agreed.
    Personally, I’m almost overwhelmed with regret that I wasted a few hundred bucks on some cords that I demoed and determined actually improved the sound quality in my system. That money could've gone to something really important like new socks or magazine subscriptions.
     
    LarryP and swvahokie like this.
  4. jfeldt

    jfeldt Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF, CA, USA
    I hate science and recommend that everyone use some guy on the internet's model of the world instead of physics to help guide them. Also, don't use your ears, use some manufacturers spec. sheet!
     
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  5. bajaed

    bajaed Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    Welllll...

    This has taken off in a big way! Bottom line, the guy I bought the new cord from has used these for years and said run it in for a couple hundred hours. He's pretty well respected on the site I bought the cord from so I figured I would do that. The manufacturer said the same.

    Can't hurt. If I don't like it, I won't wonder if it's broken in. If I do, I'll probably follow the same process if I get another. Zu cords have a lot of fans so I'm optimistic.
     
    jfeldt likes this.
  6. ralf11

    ralf11 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Earth
  7. docwebb

    docwebb Forum Resident

    Out of the box it will sound either better or worse than your current PC (or no change). So hook it up to your gear and if it sounds the same or better then continue to use it and listen for improvement as you break it in using your gear.
    If out of the box it sounds much worse than your current PC, then unplug it from your equipment and break it in with something that draws high current continuously and not something low current or on standby. Space heater sounds like good idea.
    Once it is broken in and in use in your system, for fun substitute back your old PC and compare the sound.
     
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  8. ultron9

    ultron9 The quest for perspicuity and grace continues...

    Location:
    USA
    :laugh:
     
  9. Blank Frank

    Blank Frank King of Carrot Flowers

    What??????

    The electricity pixies take electricity FROM all your gear, back down the wires, back through the distribution chain to the power station?

    Are you quite mad?
     
    Gary likes this.
  10. Just Walking

    Just Walking Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Thanks for the kind words!

    There is an interesting patent by Bill Whitlock (He ran Jensen Transformers from 1988 to 2014, and designed the THAT balanced audio chips) on mains cable construction US 8,907,211 granted in 2014 (you can download it from the USPO website). Basically it discloses a power cord construction in which line and neutral are tightly twisted, and the ground wire runs alongside. The twisted pair tend to cancel out RF fields in the environment (like a balanced cable). They have a distributed high capacitance, and so tend to filter out RF coming down the cable. And (and this is the inventive step) the ground wire is outside the twisted line and neutral, and therefore tends not to pick up RF and power frequency currents in the twisted pair - and so remains clean.

    He also discloses better constructions in which line and neutral become a star quad, and the ground wire spirals around the pair or quad - always the aim is reduce induced voltages and currents in the ground wire.
     
  11. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    This is more a testament to the USPTO rubber-stamping anything that comes across their desk to get the patent fee, and nobody caring enough to dispute and file prior art (which is ubiquitous and obvious).

    Patents these days are granted for ideas where the filer has obviously never even built a prototype, and they certainly don't check for validity of the claims or usefulness of the invention at the office.

    My optically-guided upholstery stapler is actually an invention. Well, it's mostly just a sewing machine stitch regulator, but nobody thought to attach a mouse sensor to a roller-mounted stapler before. Whereas every EE in the world thought to twist wires.

    Never mind that this whole thread is dumb. Everybody knows that the electrons moving between metallic domains of copper crystal care much more about the cable suspension system you use.
     
  12. Just Walking

    Just Walking Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
  13. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
  14. Just Walking

    Just Walking Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Now that is really dumb - braiding the ground wire with live and neutral, which guarantees maximum interference coupling. Totally agree!
     
  15. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    :biglaugh:
     
  16. Blank Frank

    Blank Frank King of Carrot Flowers

    But that's because the electricity pixies like their creature comforts, as do their cousins the audio pixies (they're the ones who carry the music around in your kit). Neither of them are as hard as their other cousins, the car pixies, who positively thrive on stiffened suspension. At least I'm sure someone told me that's what makes my car go faster through corners...
     
  17. jeffmackwood

    jeffmackwood Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ottawa
    I think there's a big difference between pointing out flaws in the patent system (which hardy does) and attacking the inventor (which hardy does not do.)

    I have just read the patent and am also amazed that it ever issued - given the cited prior art. I would not expect it to survive a challenge (and as we all know, a patent is only really and truly valuable if it does.)

    The patent itself is focused entirely on producing one stated benefit (and I'll quote from the patent): "This reduction in induced voltages on the ground conductor(s) has the beneficial effect of reducing ground loop noise in a system of connected equipment." Whether that reduction in ground loop noise translates into an audible benefit, or not, will be seen (or not) if and when power cords embodying the invention become used in a variety of situations. (I don't imagine that up until now audio gear has ignored the issue and has not been already designed to take this into account. Thus the matter is one of incremental benefit - audible or not.)

    (As an aside my guess is that most of us have heard a system experiencing an actual audible ground loop. Without making use of power cables embodying this invention we've been able to eliminate it. But if we had not been able to do so, using all other known (and inexpensive) methods, having the ability to purchase and install such a cable(s), as an assured way of eliminating the problem (assuming it does) then this would be a very tangible benefit. But even then, what we would have done is eliminate an added sound that, again, most of us have heard before. Does this translate into additional sonic benefits (like being able to hear angels dancing on the head of pins)? I have my doubts.)

    Thanks for bringing the patent to our attention. It was an interesting read.

    Jeff
     
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  18. Socalguy

    Socalguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    CA
    After I buy a $200 power cord I'm saving up for some dog ear protectors.

    US Patent #4233942

    [​IMG]
     
    SirMarc, razerx, rednedtugent and 6 others like this.
  19. bajaed

    bajaed Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    You need to break those in on your cats tail for a few weeks or the dog won't understand when you call him.
     
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  20. captwillard

    captwillard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashville
    I think some of that break in time is for your ears and brain to adjust for any percieved changes. However, its a great sales ploy to have the burn in period approximate the return window on some gear.
     
  21. blakep

    blakep Senior Member

    Notwithstanding the debate as to whether Hospital Grade provides subjectively better sound in audio systems (I certainly don't think it does), the only thing hospital grade about that strip is a male plug from a dubious manufacturer. The receptacles are probably 50 cent garbage.

    If they can't even assemble the male plug properly-or perhaps it is a manufacturing defect-for the marketing photos, it would have to make the average person at least skeptical about the internal quality (or lack thereof) on this piece. Not something I'd be interested in.

    [​IMG]
     
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  22. Grower of Mushrooms

    Grower of Mushrooms Omnivorous mammalian bipedal entity.

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Back in the 70s as a teenager, I spent some time living in a small coastal village on the west coast of Scotland, which had a Coastguard station. All forms of domestic electronic entertainment were affected by frequent bursts of high-amplitude radio telegraphy (Morse Code).

    Somehow I doubt whether high end power cables would have helped that situation, burned in or not.
     
  23. Diskhound

    Diskhound Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    I am afraid that you will need to make up your own mind, using your own ears. A reasonable answer to your question is actually on the Zu Mission power cable page so I would just do what they recommend. If you want to look into it a bit more then I can't promise satisfaction but I can recommend the informative piece that George Cardas has posted on the insights section of his site. For a little more information you could read about the experience of Gaelen Carol, who stopped breaking-in cables for clients. His experience is described on his site and provides some support for Cardas' views. The views of Shunyata should also be taken into account as they also do fundamental research. FWIW, I think Cardas is the real deal, with a lifetime of scientific work and a cable/copper business that goes way beyond his own branded line-up and way beyond audio.
     
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  24. ralf11

    ralf11 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Earth
    Hospital Grade provides objectively better mechanical connection in any use - I have one of those and mine is well-assembled

    you no like; you no buy

    or get a new Tripp-Lite - the important thing is to eliminate ground loops in your system and that is highly likely to reduce noise injection to your DAC, as well as hum

    the GTT fits into my installation better than the Tripp-Lite I used to use - no SQ increment of one over the other implied; just avoid MOS in them
     
  25. ralf11

    ralf11 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Earth
    I don't know what to make of Shunyata - some of their products are good; others seem infected by woo-woo

    I do know one guy who is a very very careful listener, and quite articulate in describing his impressions - he likes his Shunyata power cable...
     
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