Not trying to be obtuse...cause I don't really know much about it...but... I DO play my cdr on my Onkyo 7030 cd player. I have no idea if the pre-emphasis flags are set. I just burned the files that were sent to me and the only 'identification' I have is the second DR listing I posted previously. And yeah...it plays fine and sounds good.
The Tangerine Dream Exit (s) seem to have dropped from the list. I think they were on it a while back. Tangerine Dream - Exit - Virgin CDV 2212 - Made in UK by Nimbus Tangerine Dream - Exit - Virgin CDV 2212 DIDZ 10089 - Made in Japan by Sony ["3XCSR"] ["Blue Face"] They do both have pre-emph and in addition are different masterings. Complicated a bit as they both possess the CDV 2212 catalog number
Thanks Ricks, I'll add em back. I may have missed them along the way. Can you confirm tag location? I've been trying to add these as well as some modern popular players won't EQ via SubQ
Regarding: The Jacksons - Triumph - CDEPC 86112 (CSR Japan-for-Europe) / EK36424 ("Now Made In The USA") Add: 32.8P-181 first press. PE in TOC and flagged in EAC. Sounds great after sox deemph!
I ripped Dire Straits "Alchemy" two disc PDO West Germany for US target pressing last night. My experience was precisely the opposite of that described above. Part One contained no pre-emphasis flags, not in TOC, nor in subcode -- as later confirmed with CUETools/CUERipper. So, much to my surprise at the time, pre-emphasis flags popped up in TOC on dBpoweramp when I started to rip Part Two. It was then that I investigated the pre-emphasis mastering on "Alchemy." Since the Vertigo and Warner Bros. target pressings are off the same line, I honestly expect both discs in the set to be mastered with pre-emphasis, just one of the two completely missing the requisite flags. As such, I kept two rips of each disc, one bit perfect, the other with digital de-emphasis applied to both discs. If helpful, I can post matrices, peak levels, and DR figures. AJ
Made me look. Both of mine have Pre-emphasis. I used XLD to detect it so don't know if it was TOC or not. Both my discs have a matrix ending in "02".
I have come to understand, though this could be incorrect, that if pre-emphasis flags are in TOC, then they also are in subcode. But if flags are in subcode, then they may or may not be in TOC. My 02 matrix trailing digits after the Vertigo catalog numbers... Part One: 02. Part Two : 02 # AJ
Same trailing characters after the 02 on mine. I did a little more testing. Disc 1 is NOT flagged in the TOC. Disc 2 is. Disc 1 it is only in the subcode. So it sounds like your software is not detecting pre-emphasis in the subcode.
I use dBpoweramp for general purpose ripping. But I use CUERipper for spot checking pre-emphasis, and it has confirmed numerous CSR Japan and early DADC pressings with flags in subcode that dBpoweramp has missed in TOC. So, something is amiss. I will have to give CUERipper a second crack at the Part One disc. Regardless, we largely have confirmed that the "Alchemy" list entry in this thread needs to be updated. Both discs are mastered with pre-emphasis -- but flagged inconsistently. AJ
On a second run with CUERipper, it did detect pre-emphasis on "Alchemy" Part One, while dBpoweramp still did not. So, that does confirm pre-emphasis flags in subcode on Part One, in TOC on Part Two. I think what happened with the first pass on CUERipper is that I just had hot swapped USB CD drives without shutting down all of my CD ripping programs in between. I still have the cue file from the first pass with CUERipper, hard evidence that it failed to pick up on the pre-emphasis flags. Hot swapping the drives without closing the ripping programs seems to have disabled some drive features. AJ
Gershwin Live! [MK 37277; 35DP-57; CSR Japan for US] -- Michael Tilson Thomas; Sarah Vaughan; Los Angeles Philharmonic 35DP-57 11A5 +++++ neat font; CSR 3x center hub; pre-emphasis flags in subcode, not TOC AJ
three new entries for what seems to be real terra incognita regarding pre-emphasis - Japanese CDs - as nobody else besides me who is participanting in this thread seems to have any of them? Reimy - Reimy (self-titled first album) - CD released in 1984-06, though matrix (C31-7163 2A1 55 X) dates to 1986-05- so this is repress. Cat/no 35C31-7163, label Denon. Flagged in subcode only. and two CDs by Seiko Matsuda: North Wind (35DH 69), album released in 1980, this is 1st CD release from 1983, matrix 35DH-69 11A5 +++++. Flagged in subcode only. Utopia (CSCL 1271) (first released on CD in 1983 with c/n 38DH 39 - higher price of 3800 yen instead o 3500 means this is fully digital recording). This is first reissue, or second issue in general. Matrix DSA-522 8 + ++ ++++++++. Flagged in TOC. also, a CD by Japanese group, also released in US - this is US issue Apsaras - Apsaras (1984, MK 39559) matrix DIDC 20138 11A1, stamped in hub: Made in USA - Digital Audio Disc Corp. Flagged in TOC.
and even more interesting one: Projazz label sampler from 1989 - "Cool Jazz, Hot Summer 2" (CDX 009) most of tracks have pre-emphasis, however a few don't I think it can be assumed that album from which these tracks are taken from are full PE releases (flagged in TOC) matrix: MADE BY DISCOVERY SYSTEMS - AN AMERICAN COMPANY 59A0100A cue sheet here: PERFORMER "Various" TITLE "Cool Jazz Hot Summer 2" FILE "CDX 009.wav" WAVE TRACK 01 AUDIO TITLE "Ridin' The Tide" PERFORMER "Oceans" FLAGS PRE INDEX 01 00:00:00 TRACK 02 AUDIO TITLE "Two Steps Forward" PERFORMER "Cliff Sarde" FLAGS PRE INDEX 00 05:12:13 INDEX 01 05:13:57 TRACK 03 AUDIO TITLE "Pacific Rim" PERFORMER "Chi" FLAGS PRE INDEX 00 09:03:67 INDEX 01 09:07:05 TRACK 04 AUDIO TITLE "Deepest Secret" PERFORMER "Samoa" FLAGS PRE INDEX 00 13:45:05 INDEX 01 13:47:47 TRACK 05 AUDIO TITLE "It Don't Mean A Thing (If It Ain't Got That Swing)" PERFORMER "John Dankworth" FLAGS PRE INDEX 00 18:00:20 INDEX 01 18:03:10 TRACK 06 AUDIO TITLE "Echoes Of Harlem" PERFORMER "Al Hirt" FLAGS PRE INDEX 00 21:31:62 INDEX 01 21:34:57 TRACK 07 AUDIO TITLE "Stardust" PERFORMER "Al Hirt" INDEX 00 25:40:62 INDEX 01 25:44:30 TRACK 08 AUDIO TITLE "California Shower" PERFORMER "Sadao Watanabe" INDEX 00 29:55:30 INDEX 01 29:58:10 TRACK 09 AUDIO TITLE "Honest & True" PERFORMER "Cliff Sarde" FLAGS PRE INDEX 00 35:31:20 INDEX 01 35:34:32 TRACK 10 AUDIO TITLE "Delphin's Daughter" PERFORMER "Joe Taylor" INDEX 00 38:33:16 INDEX 01 38:37:45 TRACK 11 AUDIO TITLE "Magic Garden" PERFORMER "Susan Mazer and Dallas Smith" FLAGS PRE INDEX 00 43:39:10 INDEX 01 43:43:05 TRACK 12 AUDIO TITLE "Tag Your It" PERFORMER "Oceans" FLAGS PRE INDEX 00 48:59:55 INDEX 01 49:02:57 TRACK 13 AUDIO TITLE "Mambo Vienna" PERFORMER "Cartel" FLAGS PRE INDEX 00 53:44:22 INDEX 01 53:47:20 TRACK 14 AUDIO TITLE "Bumper Cars" PERFORMER "Rick Strauss" FLAGS PRE INDEX 00 59:31:60 INDEX 01 59:32:57 TRACK 15 AUDIO TITLE "And The Meek" PERFORMER "Cartel" FLAGS PRE INDEX 00 65:24:52 This CD was pressed by Discovery Systems, and that's why I bought it. I've read about them before and I find their pressings interesting, wanted to check by myself just how bad their pressings actually are, though I think how they play today may wary from disc to disc and because of different storage conditions. This CD doesn't play well at all, in fact no regular CD players that I have can read it correctly. However I was able to get a clear rip by connecting a Toshiba DVD player, which plays it quite well, with my Masterlink through digital out/in and recording the signal. EAC might take an several weeks to rip it, and it's a good question if it would be any better, so I won't try, however I was able to extract the cue sheet. Anyone here has any other Projazz CDs to check? Also, supposing that strong lasers read Discovery Systems pressings better, logically thinking, the problematic ones might play the best on BD-RW computer drives? Don't have one so I can't check.
Concerning this point, I just borrowed a CD that is impossible to rip with EAC (sync error, read error) but plays fine on my Oppo Blu-Ray player. I don't even hear when the error correction comes in, if it does, so there might be some credit to your theory.
Discovery Systems Discs Not very scientific: The one on the left is a complete dud, the one on the right plays and rips fine. If I had another I could make a pair of sunglasses for Elton John.
According to eac and cueripper both my Dire Straits - Alchemy discs have pre emphasis. Made in W.Germany / red swirl - matrix 818 245-2 05 and 818 244-2 06+ Streetheart - Streetheart S21 53010 ( made in Canada / LT40 724385301025 #70709V13) Eac and cueripper don't show any pre emphasis indication. But to be honest it sure sounds like it. After a run with sox/deemph it sound more natural and not muddy at all. and a big thanks for the detailed instructions by @Ham Sandwich in the various pre emphasis threads on how to use sox.exe
My experience exactly. This determines without a doubt that these programs for detecting PE are not the end all and be all. After all, both of us hear it exactly the same way, but yet all programs fail to identify it. You still need your systems and ears guys, so sorry to break the bad news.
Hardware is key also Dave, I've yet to have the pre beta EAC fail for SUB-Q identification. Some disc drives however won't locate it whatever program you use. I had to go back to an older drive for detection since a newer one wouldn't work. PIA
Actually all this proves is that some masterings sound better to you with the PE equalization curve applied. It does not indicate for sure that the CD was mastered with PE and they forgot to flag it. It is certainly possible, but two people thinking it sounds better doesn't make it qualify to be on this list.
Steve, there's just no question. The straight CD sounds "exactly" like a CD-R copy of an album without it engaged when it's supposed to be there. It's the exact same sonics, blaring in both the top and bottom ends on that Streetheart and Black Sabbath CD's Japan 2fer of Master Of Reality/Vol. 4, leading promptly to the point of fatigue and distortion at loud volume with a certain disjointedness to it all. The BTO 2fer Japan Not Fragile/Four Wheel Drive is in this as well and so is the original U.S.A. Bad Co. Desolation Angels and I'm sure there are others yet to be discovered. The last two are not as bad sounding as the former two but when you add back the PE everything sonically falls into its appropriate place sounding like a good mastering instead of the well everything is there but somehow just doesn't sound right mastering. You guys make the call whether it stays or goes, but before you do you owe to yourself to at least check it out for yourself.
Dave when I update I'll give a possible 'tag' missing * I understand Steve's concern. It's why we're asking for solid confirmation. When the EQ is added does it match any known DR numbers? The DR will drop whenever it's added
