Preamp - does brand make any real difference?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Beachtraveler, Apr 17, 2017.

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  1. mcbrion

    mcbrion Forum Resident

    Location:
    Connecticut
    The NAD PP2 is astoundingly good. And I have had some pretty expensive equipment. My other phono stage is a Tom Evans Groove Plus, but when I heard Barbra Streisand's first album (the best engineered of any album she's made) on the NAD 356/PP2 combination on my sister's Rega Planar 3 turntable, I was agog with admiration. You could clearly hear the studio surrounding her and every breath she took (and this was NOT due to an elevated lower treble, either) and the sheer musicality of it was pretty dramatic. Some phono stages make every record sound "pretty." Some will give you the direct sound, but not the surrounding environment of the studio/concert hall or wherever environment the album was recorded in. (And multi-tracked albums are not very good at revealing the studio ambience. Well, at least not ones recorded after the 60s or early '70s, in my experience). No problem for the NAD.

    The dealer and I discussed this and we both agreed that NAD could have charged significantly more for this than they did. I was also using the NAD C325BEE as well as the NAD C356BEE. At times, I could listen to this and enjoy the music as well as I could with my Conrad Johnson ET3/Classic 60 setup.
     
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  2. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    I think the biggest upgrade you need to make is listening to vinyl more than 2-4 hours a week. Then systematically increase your spending in an irrational journey down the rabbit hole of addiction chasing the perfect sound.
     
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  3. Jack Flannery

    Jack Flannery Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I had a PP2 for several years. It was not the weak link. I tried to run it through a Lexicon processor. Went to a very serviceable vinyl system to crap. But it was fine pre-lexicon.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  4. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    The problem I have with today's audiophile-marketed phono preamps is they do not necessarily excel over what came included in high-quality receivers or stereo preamps (the kind that is like a "receiver" but for when you have a separate amp); they cost more for less.

    I can say this having empirically measured the frequency response, noise, distortion, and clipping level of several phono sections (albeit nothing in the $1000 range), until I settled on a Denon stereo-only receiver to do preamp duty to my ADC in, having a response flat to 48kHz.

    For the price of a made-in-China come-lately phono stage (which looks like a $20 circuit board sold for $400), you could also get a quality classic stereo preamp that includes phono. Something like this Carver C-2 preamp (pictured on top, made in Washington state) or other vintage audiophile. You could use its "tape out" to get clean phono.

    [​IMG]

    Disclaimer: I've owned the m1.0t amp on the bottom that embarrassed Stereophile magazine and have been to the Carver factory in Lynnwood WA, so I have a preference for no-nonsense measurable quality.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
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  5. bluemooze

    bluemooze Senior Member

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    Do a forum search on the Lounge LCR III. Good luck with your purchase. :)
     
  6. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    Rega Fono, Cambridge Audio 540P or 640P, NAD PP2 will all get you more than ably started.

    Also, do read up on reviews, see what the consistent opinions are and check out the reliable ones. From the UK, see Andrew Everard, Noel Keywood, David Price or Adam Smith. Sure, you can go to the shops but a little background information before you do won't hurt.
     
  7. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    @Beachtraveler, check out this YouTube playlist:

    Phonostages (below $900) - YouTube

    This guy did a shootout of a handful of "affordable" phono stages. He actually preferred some of the cheaper units over the more expensive models often lauded here. Now, I'm not saying you should take his opinions at gospel - far from it.

    The take away here is:

    1) How crowded the market is

    2) How subjective this all is

    I hate to say this, but heading to a brick and mortar store isn't going to help you at all unless that store is sending you home with a demo unit or units for you to try in your own system. It is highly unlikely that any store is going to have a demo system that is identical to yours, and what sounds good in the store may sound like **** to you in your home, on your system.

    Like I said, narrow down your choices, order a few units (check return policies/demo periods) and decide for yourself.
     
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  8. Jelloalien

    Jelloalien Stylus Genie

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
  9. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    I wonder if anyone has tried one of these, it looks like a good entry level unit for a knock-off box, something not out of line for a $200 turntable and $500 receiver without phono, although printing "audiophile" on the front and a frequency response graph on the top (that is less than a straight line) is a bit cheesy. It has a gain control, so you can crank it up to match other components.

    Amazon.com: TCC TC-760LC BLACK Moving Magnet / Moving Coil Phono Preamp w/Level Control: Electronics

    "The NAD PP-2 is a great product; for years it has ruled the roost among MM/MC preamps. But our TC-760LC aims to change that."
     
  10. Obtuse1

    Obtuse1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    I used the model below this one (TC-750LC) for a few years (the main difference being that it is MM only). It was a very decent performer for the $$$, and the level control was handy for needledrops.

    I later upgraded to the Lounge Audio LCR MkIII, which is quite the step above.
     
  11. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Well just found this person's experience, reaffirming my earlier assertion and recommendation:
     
  12. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    The most common phrases I read regarding almost any budget preamp is "it's the best under $1k," or "it's a giant slayer." I believe folks greatly exaggerate the differences between these budget models. The only budget model I've heard that has been significantly different from the rest is the Lounge LCR. If your absolute max is $200, I think you won't go wrong with just about any suggestion here.

    I have to agree with Bill on this one, go to a couple brick and mortars and see if you can take a listen. Be careful though, if you're like me and go to the dealer intending to buy a $200 preamp, you'll likely walk out of there with a $1000 preamp.:winkgrin:
     
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  13. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    There are differences even among cheap units. I've got two sub $200 phono pres and used to have third no-name $25 one. None of them sound the same, nor do they all have the same features. Would I compare any of them to something costing ten times as much? No way.

    However, I don't think it would be out of line for someone to prefer a unit that is a bit cheaper or a bit more expensive than another in the same general range. See the video playlist I linked above. That reviewer preferred cheaper units from Schiit, Musical Fidelity, Rega, and U-Turn over more expensive units from Graham Slee and Lounge. Other people might feel the exact opposite way.
     
  14. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    That used to be recommended a lot along with the ART DJ Pre in the sub-$100 range. I can't remember if one or the other had some minor issues with bad batches.
     
  15. mds

    mds Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    If your wife allows spend the money on room treatments. Upgrading equipment once you have that basic budget system is to buy one by one expensive component/pieces of equipment. More than what it sounds you have now in terms of funds for. On the other hand room treatments aren't a lot of money and will improve the sound in the room dramatically, even your present budget system will sound much improved. Once you are at the point you have excess cash for those expensive component upgrades then make those purchases count. Some will say upgrade the source first others the speakers, you decide, its a long process but fun. I say room first, at least that way the room will be in perfect condition for the upgrades.
     
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  16. Beachtraveler

    Beachtraveler Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Salem, OR

    This is the one I just ordered for a very good price. Hope it makes a difference, but it got pretty solid reviews and the price was right!
     
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  17. Beachtraveler

    Beachtraveler Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Salem, OR
    I AM the wife, lol! :laugh:
     
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  18. Phasecorrect

    Phasecorrect Forum Resident

    Location:
    WI
    The entry level Project MM box is very respectable for the price. Basic, good build, very good sound. Not amazing, but in this range, very good is good enough. Not going to get any cheaper.
     
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  19. Oops. Someone didn't check the profile.

    I have both the Lounge and Emotiva. The Lounge is for a system with MM cart and Emotiva is for a system with an Ortofon Vivo Blue LMOC cart. Love them both
     
  20. mds

    mds Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    Well then if the husband doesn't object to sound treatments; absorption and / or diffuse panels. Be it for the wife, husband or both's enjoyment, sound treating the room really makes a huge difference in the quality of sound and can make a modest system sound a lot higher quality.
     
  21. Beachtraveler

    Beachtraveler Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Salem, OR
    So I hooked up the Emotiva XPS-1 GEN2. I don't notice much difference in sound quality, though admittedly, it's got all sorts of button and levers that the old one didn't have, and since it came with no user manual, I have no idea how to tinker with it. I'm going to check out their website and see if I can figure something out. Any advice you have on the Emotiva is appreciated!!
     
  22. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    Judging by the photo, set the two main switches to MM and all of the little, white DIP switches to OFF. That should be proper set-up for any MM, moving magnet phono cartridge.
    -Bill
     
  23. Are we talking about the XPS-1 or the XSP1-Gen2?? Two entirely different animals; but if it's the XPS-1 I set mine to MM then the two white DIP switches marked 47K to "on"
     
  24. Vinyl Addict

    Vinyl Addict Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA

    Ive owned both. The Mani gave me RF interference issues. I tried 2 and had the same isue with both. I could clearly hear a local radio station once I turned on the Mani.
    I can't find a single thing to dislike about the Lounge. Its flawless in my book, and well worth the asking price.
     
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  25. RhodesSupremacy

    RhodesSupremacy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Away, India
    At the risk of sounding like a semantic douche, no, brand makes no difference whatsoever.
    The circuit design, quality of parts used and quality of craftsmanship do indeed make a difference.
    Additionally, the presence of good proven design, quality parts and quality craftsmanship does not guarantee you will enjoy it.
     
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