Pro-Ject Debut Carbon or Rega - RP1 w/Performance Pack

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by gates69, Jan 4, 2013.

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  1. Bob_in_OKC

    Bob_in_OKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    I don't think that's how turntables are checked. They make them one at a time, so they all get checked. This is what turntable production looks like - not produced by the thousands.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. PopularChuck

    PopularChuck Senior Member

    Location:
    Bay Area
    I bought a Carbon based on a lot of research, but I went about it a bit backward. I was considering a Rega as well and was almost literally about to flip a coin when I saw a Pro-ject Speedbox II and an acrylic platter pop up in the SH forum a month or so ago. I grabbed them.

    Then I got a second-hand Jolida JD-9 phono because I've got a Jolida amplifier. And just last week I ordered the Carbon from Needle Doctor and went for an Ortofon Bronze based on some research and a thread I found here. The Tat is slated to arrive today... And I've got a big stack of vinyl I've been amassing since October and a day off on Monday. :D
     
    Daniel Thomas likes this.
  3. Upinsmoke

    Upinsmoke Well-Known Member

    Location:
    SE PA
    This was on youtube about how they make VPI tables also...

     
  4. Greg Carrier

    Greg Carrier Senior Member

    Location:
    Iowa City
    I bought an RP1 with the performance pack. Like the white belt, but the Rega cart didn't work right -- I was installing it myself, could have been user error. I ended up getting a Nagaoka MP-110 instead. Went back to the felt mat, too, to get the platter height right for the Nagaoka. Very happy with the table, though. The stock RP1 is impressive for the price. To be fair, I haven't seen or listened to the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon.
     
    samn likes this.
  5. john hughes

    john hughes New Member

    Hi Jim, its John from stoke-on -trent in England.I Have just had ademo of the project debut carbon and was very impressed and am saving up to buy one(300 pounds)but have seen your threads on the rega planar and now not so sure which to go for. At the moment I have a Bang&Olufsen 3000(circa 1986) and having trouble getting a mmc4 cartridge replacement, I can get a second hand one on ebay but the price is usually too high for second hand.and a new one from the states is very expensive,so i am in a quandary.H ave you any advice.thanks.
     
  6. drew phillips

    drew phillips Forum Resident

    Location:
    alicante Spain
    It's also possible to add a little extra weight yourself to the original counterweight. I ran a small ring of Blu Tac at the back of the weight and stuck 4 small washers to it. worked a treat.
     
  7. mickster

    mickster Forum Resident

    Location:
    boonton, NJ, USA
    I bought the RP1 w/ performance pack last October....the cartridge is quite possibly the "edgiest" unfriendly sounding I've ever heard. Rega grounds the arm via the left channel lead...not exactly the best way and the cheapest way to do it. And speaking of cheap: it weighs about 8 lbs....When I shut the turntable off there would be a loud static "pop" about 3 seconds later. The table is now sitting on the floor in the corner waiting for someone to offer me $350 for it. I replaced it with a VPI Traveler w/ Ortophon Blue ...... Incredible sound.
     
  8. PopularChuck

    PopularChuck Senior Member

    Location:
    Bay Area
    I just got my Debut Carbon with a SpeedBox II, Acryl-It platter and Ortofon Bronze. OMG. Heaven... and the cartridge and interconnect haven't even broken in. I am really impressed.
     
    I333I, Daniel Thomas, wgb113 and 3 others like this.
  9. gates69

    gates69 Music Junkie Thread Starter

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    My vinyl bug got cured shortly after all the issues I had. Returned the turntable for a full refund and sold off the vinyl I had along with my VPI 16.5. Never been happier with a collection of just cd's.
    Happy you found something that you are pleased with. I said it before and I will say it again. God bless those who can put in the work needed to enjoy a vinyl collection. It just wasn't for me and I'm ok with that.
     
    Daniel Thomas and GetHappy!! like this.
  10. Liambarker12

    Liambarker12 New Member

    Well this thread has seriously taken the wind, right out of my sails in regards to getting started with my first record playing setup.

    All this crap about upgrades. For Christ's sake, a new turntable in this price range is approx $550-$600, and the prospect of dropping that kind of cash, to get a turntable with sub par components that need upgrading because of "wobbles" or whatever it might be, just infuriates me. With all the advances in technology since vinyls heyday, why haven't these seemingly simple problems been totally rectified. I could understand if I spent $200 on a crapy cheap turntable and having issues with it, but spending $600, to buy a seemingly incomplete turntable, totally galls me.

    My thoughts on this are just that companies seem to be making vinyl into something that it's not, to make mor money, by making all these add-ons, because vinyl's heyday is long over. And in doing so, removing all the romance and character vinyl has to offer. I won't deny, vinyl is on its way back, but it's not gonna come back in any big way if prospecting buyers are faced with this ridiculousness.

    Most depressing thing of all about this thread is seeing gates69's excitement of choosing his first turntable back in Jan 2013 and purchasing it and ultimately giving up in Feb 2014, and selling the turntable, the records and everything, and probably losing quite a sum of money in the process, just to got back to CD's. Very sad to read.
     
  11. wgb113

    wgb113 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chester County, PA
    @Liambarker12
    Don't forget that they make a very small number of turntables now compared to vinyl's heyday but you're right, advances in technology should make up for some of that.
    Also, remember you're on a forum with audio enthusiasts - we're a littly nit-picky to say the least. The average Joe or Jane helping drive the vinyl resurgence if they're buying a new turntable is buying a sub-$200 model from a company like Crosley, Audio Technica, Stanton, etc.
    Most of the add-ons and upgrades sold for $200+ turntables are there because there's a market (us) for them. I'm sure if someone new to vinyl and not an audiophile would be happy with either the Rega or the Pro-Ject in their stock form. I am into audio equipment and two years in I'm still enjoying my Debut Carbon.
    I wouldn't be too sad about turntables and vinyl based on one person's experience. They made the choice not be perfectly content with CDs and that's all any of us should care about.

    Bill
     
  12. Ntotrar

    Ntotrar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tri-Cities TN
    I have a RP6 and a RP1 (performance pack). My RP1 works great in my living room system, no additional tweaks required.
     
  13. designwallah

    designwallah Active Member

    Greetings. This is my first post. My 25 year old Dual CS 505-2 finally kicked the bucket and I decided to buy a new turntable instead of spending another $100 to fix it again.

    I purchased a ProJect Debut Carbon from a reputable shop and had it in my living room for less than an hour before returning it. The reason is what was mentioned in the opening post of this thread, "motor hum that was not audible through the speakers but was still there". I read through all the posts in this thread but I didn't see anything that addressed this particular issue.

    I plugged everything in and put the needle on the record. Before the music started I put the lid down. That's when I heard the hum. Gradually open the lid, gradual decrease in hum. I unplugged the TT from the amp just to verify it wasn't feedback, no luck.

    I'm 56 and my hearing is going but I'm damn sure it wasn't my tinnitus I was hearing!

    I took the TT back to the shop where it was confirmed that the motor was rather noisy. They tested a second TT and it had the same issue, albeit a little less severe. A couple of screws were tightened and loosened but the shopkeeper did not feel comfortable selling one so I got my money back.

    I'm certainly not as picky as some, but I was really disappointed by the situation.

    I am looking for a reasonably priced, quality turntable that I don't need to upgrade.

    A different shop has both the ProJect Debut Carbon and the Rega RP1 for the same price, $480 Can. I found this forum post in a Google search for ProJect vs Rega. I need to decide on which to purchase. It was suggested that the two TT I had a chance to listen to we're from a "bad batch", I certainly hope so.

    Sorry for the long, rambling post.

    Cheers,


    Francis.
     
  14. mickster

    mickster Forum Resident

    Location:
    boonton, NJ, USA
    The hum is a grounding issue where Rega is at fault...instead of an external ground they use the left rca lead for the ground ...at least I think it's the left..could be the right but either way it's a cheap way to do it. If you have an old house with old wiring your pretty much gonna have problems. I purchased the Rega RP1 w/ performance pack for $640 and got rid of it within a month. Cheaply made IMHO. The upgrade cartridge was harsh sounding and when I shut it down it would emit a loud crackle about 10 seconds later. I bit the bullet and purchased the VPI Traveler w/ Ortofon Blue...awesome deck.
     
  15. Ntotrar

    Ntotrar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tri-Cities TN
    Give the RP1 a try. I have one and it has no issues. Mine has the performance pack upgrades from the factory.
     
  16. Ntotrar

    Ntotrar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tri-Cities TN
    He bought a Project, how is Rega responsible?
     
  17. designwallah

    designwallah Active Member

    Yes, I bought a ProJect. I plan to give both the non-upgraded turntables a listen today. Meanwhile, I do have an old house - built in 1882, with many upgrades after, including electricity. Does opening and closing the lid decrease/increase the resonance of the motor hum?
     
  18. Ntotrar

    Ntotrar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tri-Cities TN
    The agreed upon best practice with Rega tables is to remove the dust cover completely during playback.
     
    CCrider92 likes this.
  19. wgb113

    wgb113 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chester County, PA
    It's interesting - I've never experienced the hum some talk about with the Pro-Ject Debut line. It's probably because I always have the lid fully open.
     
  20. Out of curiousity I just read the reviews of the Carbon on the Needle Doctor site and it seems some folks got rid of the hum by upgrading to Audioquest cabling. Don't own one, but sounds like that may be a good remedy
     
  21. designwallah

    designwallah Active Member

    I need to keep the lid closed as I have three curious cats. I bought the Carbon and it does still have hum, though this one seemed a bit less, I guess I'll have to live with it - I imagine it will only be annoying when I'm close to the turntable and no music is playing. I wonder how better cables will help...
     
  22. Deryl Johnson

    Deryl Johnson Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Western New York
    Pro-Ject Debut Carbon ($399) with the Speed Box S ($129). With these 2 components You have a solid belt drive with that great Carbon Tone Arm. I loved mine even before I got the Speed Box S, but it completely eliminated slight hum from the stock 16 volt power supply. I got the acrylic platter ($129)'To make it even quieter by eliminating any magnetic interference between the cartridge and the platter, plus, no more mat, so my records stay super clean. I love my Debut Carbon and I will never need a better table set than I have now. I also had a big upgrade on the cartridge, but I was gift. I was perfectly satisfied with the Ortofon Red (and my Tonearm is SO cool!) You can upgrade to the blu Cartridge by just installing a blue needle ($75 ), but I'd wear out the Red needle for a year or so to make it worthwhile. ( I think diamonds take a while to wear down at all against vinyl!)
     
  23. Paul K

    Paul K Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada

    I dig your enthusiasm, but the 2M Blue replacement stylus is sadly more than $75 I'm afraid...

    http://www.needledoctor.com/Ortofon-2M-Blue-Phono-Cartridge_2
     
  24. Deryl Johnson

    Deryl Johnson Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Western New York
    Sorry I handed out bad information. My Brother bought me an Ortofon Bronze for my birthday, so I was just passing on the information that I had gathered without verifying. Needless to say I m very pleased with my Ortofon Bronze Cartridge, and especially for free. How much is the blue stylus upgrade so that I can correctly inform the next person who asks?
     
  25. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    The hum you hear is most likely motor vibration that makes its way through the plinth and to the tonearm and to the platter. An explanations is here:
    http://www.theapplechap.webspace.vi...m_Pro-ject_turntables_by_removing_rumble.html

    It's not a grounding issue. At least not likely a grounding issue. Much more likely to be a mechanical motor rumble resonance issue.

    I've got a Debut III. It has the motor rumble hum. I'm unable to get rid of it even with the hacks. The Debut Carbon isolates the motor a little better than the older Debut III, but still not well enough. The Debut Carbon implemented some of the fixes suggested in the blog post. But obviously still doesn't do well enough.

    The fix is a different brand of turntable. And probably more expensive.
     
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