Pro-Ject X1 - rumble vs chugging

Hi, I'm new to the forum and this is my first post.

I recently bought a Pro-Ject X1 turntable and overall I really like it, but I've had one problem I would appreciate some assistance on from people with possibly the same experience as me.

After enjoying my first few records on the turntable, I noticed a faint chugging sound coming from the motor. Like a "tock-tock-tock". I first had to be quite close to the turntable to notice, but after some time, the noise level increased and I could hear it from several meters distance. I managed to get it down to the first noise level after removing the platter and belt and reattaching it. But soon enough, it was back to TOCK-TOCK-TOCK.

So I did a more thorough analysis with some trial-and-error approach, and I realised that the suspension of the motor was too tight. I loosened the screws (marked red in my attached picture) quite a bit, and the chugging went away. But now I instead got rumble, with the whole turntable vibrating, causing an annoying hum. So after fiddling with the screws for a while, I found that the best result was reached by tightening the screws again, but not as much as the factory setting. No hum, but a slight chugging that I guess I can live with. But is it supposed to be like this? I never experienced any motor noise in any form on my old Debut III, which was a much simpler and cheaper turntable... Any other X1 owners here who has had the same experience?

Regards,
Björn

 

Does it make the noise w/ the belt removed?

 

The circled screws are really intended to be completely removed as they are transport screws, but Pro-Ject likes to leave a lot of things up to the user to decide what is best, since the motor mount is a compromise. In the end, whatever you can do to lower the noise floor regarding all the motor screws and suspension points is the "best" way. Ideally, the motor would be locked in place to provide the lowest wow and flutter, not suspended on o-rings to bounce around, but based on all the user feedback on sites like this, experimentation is needed to get the best compromise. Below is what they say in their FAQ ...


Is it necesary to remove motor transportation screws?
Usually best results are achieved by removing the transport screws! So the motor is hanging free and the vibrations are decoupled by the O-ring, which works like a subchassis. Unfortunately in reality it is not that easy! Because of different quality and cleanness of AC power, Motors react different strong in their vibration behaviour. Although we select the motors according to their vibration pattern, not every motor is the same! Also the used power supply influences the vibrating of the motor significantly. So there are differences by using 110V or 220/30 power supply .There are lot of combinations possible which are impossible to foresee. In worst case, motor starts to vibrate in a certain frequency area so strong, that the free mounting makes it even worse. So in some cases it is better to fix the motor with transportation screws! If you decide to re-mount transportation screws, it is very important not to tight the screws too hard on the plinth as this will eliminate the damping ability of the mounting! Right strength of screw fixing can be judged by try and error only. If there is no hum noise coming out of the speakers when tracking a groove without signal, you achieved the correct adjustment! Since some time we are using high-tech Thermo Elasto Plastimer (TPE) dampers on each mounting point additionally. These dampers avoid motor vibration transmitted to the plinth in addition. Attention! Please do not mix up this “motor hum” with electrical ground noise caused by bad or no grounding. If there is a hum noticeable while the needle is NOT placed in the groove, something is wrong with grounding. This has nothing to do with the correct motor fixing. You can find this also by touching the plinth with your fingers. A hardly noticeable vibration on the plinth is the correct adjustment!

 

No, it doesn’t.

 

I don’t think that is applicable for the X1 and some better models which come installed with the S/E upgrade kit. As you can see on my picture, the screws are holding rubber damping in place.

this is the kit: Pro-Ject Audio Systems S/E Upgrade Kit

and here’s an old thread about it:
Pro-ject S/E Upgrade Kit (rumble cure?)... Any users?

 

Update: It is not really the S/E kit that is installed, but apparently, Pro-Ject use TPE dampers in addition to the rubber band construction nowadays. I found the below in their FAQ, and I think what works best for me is to keep the dampers but not attach the motor too tight. I tried removing them entirely, but then the motor vibrations extend to the plinth causing a humming noise.

"Since some time we are using high-tech Thermo Elasto Plastimer (TPE) dampers on each mounting point additionally. These dampers avoid motor vibration transmitted to the plinth in addition."

 

I see a gap between the motor and plinth at the top of the photo but very little gap towards the bottom. Is it possible the motor is touching the plinth when you adjust the screws? Maybe you could adjust the motor so the gap around it is more uniform?

 

The motor mount design is why I tell people not to buy these things. Keep fiddling. It might improve, or it might not. Watch the terms of your return period carefully.

 

I removed the (transport?) screws and TPE dampers entirely. So now the motor rests freely on the rubber bands only. This completely removes the chugging noise, but I am instead getting a slight hum as motor vibrations are spread to the plinth. I only hear it when the lid is closed though, and it is not picked up by the cartridge either, so I can live with it.

 

Another good reason not to listen with the dust cover closed. Never understood that.

 

Well, there is the obvious reason of keeping dust off your records and turntable

Honestly though, my Micro Seiki deck has a 4.5mm thick cast acrylic cover and I almost always close it, very convenient, and I'm not sure I can detect any significant sound problems with it closed. But I have had decks in the past with much lighter covers that I removed for serious listening. And I have heard reports on some of the less expensive tables of cover rumble.

 

I had a Pro-Ject X2 earlier this year that I ended up returning due to it not feeling sturdy enough. I also had an issue with the motor transferring significant vibrations to the platter. After prodding a few emails and social media accounts, I was given the solution.
The motor sits atop a foam pad that is meant to be there for shipping, but there is nowhere in the manual that states to unhook the motor from the belts, and carefully pull the foam ring out. The motor should float and not be touching anything other than the rubber bands. This “fixed” my problem, but after going through that experience, I found the amount of noise that the table generated was very similar to my Debut Carbon. Also, after moving on to a Technics Sl- 1200, which has a VM95ML on it, I have found significantly less surface noise, and much deeper background.

 

I was just about to comment that this is the kind of story that makes me want to skip belt drive and get a good direct drive. Of all the fiddling and tweaking that can be needed to get a turntable dialed in, messing with the motor and belt IMHO should not be part of that process. I have an inexpensive U-turn Orbit and, if I'd experienced what the OP did, it would have promptly gone back.

 

Definitely, agreed.

 

Hi! That foam ring is exclusive to the X2? I don’t se it on my X1. Or can you describe closer where it is located, based on the picture of my original post? Perhaps it is the equivalent of the TPE dampers on the X1.

 

The foam pad is there to protect the motor during transit and should be removed, at least that was the case with my Pro-ject 2Xprience. I had to detach the rubber belt to remove it. Not sure about the 2 screws as they are not present on the 2Xperience. No mention of the foam in the manual....Pro-ject manuals are not the best shall we say!

 

Huh, it seems that the washers arent on the X2 but are on the X1. Im sorry, how are they still using
the same school of thought with the rubber washers as they did with the Debut Carbon and related tables.
They ended up shipping an extra printed out sheet of paper to go with the later Carbons that specified those washers and if you should removed them or not, and the paper basically surmised that you should experiment.

 

Yup, that’s what their FAQ still suggests. And in the end I prefer the slight hum from vibrations in the plinth when not using the washers, over the the chugging noise when using them :/

 

Or you can not close the dust cover and endure no noise.

 

Indeed, that is what I do. I close the lid when not listening only

 

Obviously if there are issues like this. On a working table there should be little to no difference at normal listening levels though.

 

I’m amazed this company is still having these issues, it’s been going on for years now and they are still vague about a solution....head shaker...

 

The solution is not to buy one. Flawed design.