Project or Rega

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by David B, Nov 27, 2021.

  1. David B

    David B Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto
    I am exploring a serious upgrade of my system as a retirement gift to myself. I use a terrific local supplier who carries Moon components and Focal speakers. They also carry Project and Rega and on the turntable front I am thinking about perhaps a Project Signature (10 or 12), or the more minimalist Rega P10. I know the answer is to give them an audition and I will, but I’m interested to know what people here think…. For certain I don’t think I can go far wrong either way
     
  2. inzite

    inzite Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    between those 2, def p10.
     
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  3. David B

    David B Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto
    But why.
     
  4. Francois1968

    Francois1968 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Netherlands
    A person who used to sell both brands told me that in every comparison he made Rega models were superior over the Pro-jects. He said that the Rega arms are way better. From personal experience I can only say that I do prefer Rega. I did audition several brands and models and ended up buying the Rega Planar 8. Like it even better than the P10 since the 8 sounds more musical and natural to my ears. But having said all that I do advice you to audition yourself. In audio it's all about synergy of the system and personal taste. Brand names, models and price are less important.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
  5. Pmds55889397

    Pmds55889397 Forum Resident

    Project are really not very good turntables.
    Build to cost at OEM, regardless how they sound.

    Rega anyday of the week.
    I would however consider P8 as not sure of the ceramic platter influence, in fact a P8 is preferred to former RP10.

    Wallshelf is mandatory as is very good phonostage and cartridge.
     
    David B likes this.
  6. GyroSE

    GyroSE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    But the Pro-Ject Signature 10 or 12 are something different than the Debut Carbon. I’ve auditioned the Signature 10 and I can tell you it’s an excellent sounding high quality turntable. It’s an uncompromising deck that’s up there with competitors in the same price bracket.
     
  7. Interesting and I'd say honest review of the Signature 12.
    [Review] Pro-Ject Signature 12 Turntable
    The build quality of the higher end Project tables is very good. My RPM10 is now a good 13 years old and still looks and performs as new.
     
    ls35a likes this.
  8. edd2b

    edd2b Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Country UK
    Yes I’ve also wondered about the ceramic platter. As a feature of the P9 they used to boast that the material was used in missile nose cones, but what are the benefits for turntable design? For whatever reason my ears didn’t sit quite as comfortably as with the 8, but you have to judge if there is a Nth degree of resolution and refinement you like about the 10. I would try to get an extended listen to both together before deciding. ;)
     
  9. Slimwhit33

    Slimwhit33 Forum Resident

    Location:
    N America
    The Signature 10 and 12 are end game tables IMO. would love to get my hands on one..
     
    GyroSE likes this.
  10. Goldy

    Goldy Failed to load

    Location:
    Ukraine
    Buying the Pro-Ject RCM has turned me off their products once and for all. Just horrible build quality.
    By contrast, the cheap Rega P2 I bought back in 2008 is still running strong here, even with the original belt. Wow measures at +-0.19%. I can't think of eventual next one being anything other than Rega.
    So these are just my $0.02
     
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  11. MGW

    MGW Less travelling, more listening

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    Personally I would prefer Rega over Pro-ject on the basis of both sound and build quality.

    However, you maybe owe it to yourself to cast the net a bit wider in that price bracket. Michell, Avid, SME, VPI, etc. That said, if it were me, however, I would stick within the range offered if you have a trusted dealer; that may be where you are already at.

    You may well get more helpful replies of you fill out the rest of your gear in your profile. Be that great current or intended. I would certainly endorse the Moon approach as you will see from my profile.
     
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  12. bever70

    bever70 Let No-one Live Rent Free in Your Head!

    Location:
    Belgium
    Well, my dealer who used to sell both ditched Rega and now only sells Project. You'll find examples of both, so invalid argument to get a Rega.
    @David B make sure you listen to both! Xtension and Signature Project series are no comparison to their cheaper series! This is essentially a forum with lots of Rega fans, so you'll get skewed opinions. Don't let that influence you, listen to both (with comparable carts if possible, which would be very hard so you might end up with a preference for one cart over another instead of one turntabe over another) and see which one you prefer. Personally I could never spend money on a lightweight 'foam' deck and definitely prefer the aesthetics of the more expensive and heavyweight Projects but that's just me.
     
  13. daytona600

    daytona600 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Project Signature Bearing weighs more than a Rega P10

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. BayouTiger

    BayouTiger Forum Resident

    Well, to be fair, Rega is all about "light and stiff" over weight. I don't like that concept, so Regardless is not for me. At least it wasn't for the RP3 I had. I also am in a minority in that I like ProJect's mid to high range arms better that the Rega arm - again based on the beloved RB300 on my RP3.

    I would be more inclined to open the field a bit, but I completely understand wanting to support the local business. I am always inclined to do the same. My Project 6Perspex came from my local guy, and the Rega came from a dealer not too far away. One thing that doesn't get considered much is that the dealer may also have access to other brands covertly. I know that one of my dealers can get other stuff if I want it by working with a friendly dealer in a larger city that he has a relationship with. Of course I can't demo it, but I can still get something I prefer and support him.

    I think either of the two mentioned would be awesome, but they are so different in aesthetics, design and ergonomics that it's got to be a personal thing that only the OP can decide. Fo me, at this range, I would be looking at Michell, Clearaudio and (OP being in Canada) Oracle. I think I would take the Oracle Origine over either of the ones listed for half the cost, or even better look for a used Delphi (what I did).

    My next integrated is likely to be a Moon ACE so I am with you there. I demo'done a couple weeks ago and it was stunning. Very much like my big tube amp.
     
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  15. MGW

    MGW Less travelling, more listening

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    The Rega P10 is lighter than just the bearing of the Pro-ject Signature!

    A rather anodyne statement as the design philosophies of the two decks are completely different - the Rega relying on lightweight and stiffness and the Pro-ject relying on mass.
     
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  16. Keith Beddard

    Keith Beddard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ottawa
    The P10 would be my choice of those 2, mainly for the RB3000 arm it has. I had the previous RB2000 on my heavily modded P6 and it was a very good arm. The light / rigid design of the Rega plinth is one way to do it, but not something I would rave about. Rega, though good, still have a couple of design flaws (or are they features??) that honestly keep them from being a truly great table:
    1) No VTA adjustment (beyond shims) for non-Rgea carts. If you happen to like one of the Rega carts, then you're golden. If you want something else, shims, or there may be 3rd party VTA adjusters, but, c'mon Rega, build a simple VTA adjustment into that RB3000, you'd probably sell a boatload.
    2) Motor mount on the plinth. The motor is the single worst vibration causing thing on an turntable. Mounting it on the plinth - even with "foam mounting tape" - is just an easy way to generate vibration that get pick up the arm / cart. Not sure about this, get a stethoscope and "listen" to the plinth with the motor running. The obvious answer to this is a simple, yet highly effective motor isolation base which de-couples the motor from the plinth (Michael Lim sells one). I installed on of these on my modded P6 and it was a night and day difference. Again, Rega could do something about this very inexpensively, but stubbornly fail to improve to get to the next level of performance.

    Having said all that, I'd still buy the P10 of those 2, but would seriously look for VTA adjuster for the RB3000 and a motor isolation base. With those 2 simple improvements you could turn a P10 into a much better table.
     
  17. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    The Rega table is designed as a whole, with a unified end goal being highest fidelity to the recording. The tables are designed from the top of the line down. Meaning that the R&D goes into their prototype super table, the Naiad.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The ceramic parts, the platter, the bearing, and the brace, are chosen for their ability to be machined to extremely tight tolerances and to maintain those without any micro distortions (stretching, bending, pitting) from resonance or aging. The ceramic is extremely dense, so heavy. This property is implemented in the bearing and platter also for its resistance to resonances. Rega combines the dissimilar material masses in a sandwich fashion, which acts as a barrier to transmission of vibration. The items thus isolated are the record and the tonearm. The plinth being extremely low mass and the record mat being extremely low mass offer this barrier from the very heavy platter. The mass of the platter is of course also used to contribute to speed stability. The physics of these two principles being that energy cannot be transferred efficiently mechanically from a low mass object to a high mass object, and that the use of the low mass parts between the high mass platter isolates the record and arm from the deck and environment. This also isolates the vibrations from the record groove acting on the cartridge and arm from the plinth. The result from controlling these vibrations and breaking a feedback loop in both directions is more information is retrieved from the record groove. The tonearm design is also interesting and furthers this overall goal.

    The Naiad is a very expensive table to produce. From there, Rega then must use these principles in a more affordable platform to be able to have customers afford them. So they use more affordable materials, similar in their properties and implementation to create the Planar 10, and then the Planar 8, etc. The arm used on the Planar 10 costs about as much by itself as the entire Planar 10. The ceramics are also very expensive, so it is substituted with glass and metal in the more commercially viable models.
    -Bill
     
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  18. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    Interesting! Back in the seventies and eighties in the UK, Rega was one of the most exclusive and difficult to obtain franchises, whilst Rega cut off some dealers who weren't doing a great job, I cannot recall a dealer giving up the account. Rega's customer service was also second to none and they made both extremely reliable and products customers were very happy to own.

    On my brief audition of the latest Planar 10, I thought it was very good.

    I wonder what happened with your dealer to give up the account?

    My local dealer who have never been a Rega dealer and are very impressed with the Pro-Ject turntables, but come a certain price point find both they and crucially the customers, prefer the Michell Gyrodec and Linn LP12.
     
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  19. stkg1

    stkg1 Member

    Location:
    Amsterdam
    I was in doubt about the Pro-ject Xtension 9 and the Rega p8, had a listening demo of both and ended up with a rega p6 with better element (ania mc). I had lots of trouble with pro-ject, motors dying, arms having problems and my dealer also told me that he had way more pro-ject’s coming back then rega’s. He told me this was also the case because pro-ject almost over produceses way to many different tables and variations, so the quality control is way less then rega.
    The Pro-Ject I had was a 2xperience acryl, so not an entry table..
     
  20. Pmds55889397

    Pmds55889397 Forum Resident

    Your dealers action could have many reasons, so hardly makes an invalid argument.

    In fact I'd usually take dealers statement/marketing with a grain of salt, much better to create your own opinion, not biased what your dealer tell you to believe.
     
  21. daytona600

    daytona600 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Lightweight = shipped in a cardboard box
    Mass =shipped on a Pallet

    Put them side by side & ask anybody what they cost

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
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  22. MGW

    MGW Less travelling, more listening

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    Neither of which either precludes or determines greater or lesser sound quality.

    The only 'advantage' of the pallet is that you could burn it for warmth ... of course also adding more carbon to the atmosphere along with the additional carbon from manufacturing and shipping.
     
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  23. bever70

    bever70 Let No-one Live Rent Free in Your Head!

    Location:
    Belgium
    Yeah which is why I said LISTEN TO BOTH AND DON'T BOTHER WITH DEALER STORIES, actually :D
     
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  24. Art K

    Art K Retired but not tired!

    Location:
    Corvallis, Oregon
    I’ve had several models of both. Not top models but low and midrange models. I definitely prefer Rega. They just sound better to me.
     
  25. bever70

    bever70 Let No-one Live Rent Free in Your Head!

    Location:
    Belgium
    Or you could turn it into a nice piece of furniture saving you money from buying something new and thereby negating the added extra carbon cost :p!
     
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