Project P2 or Rega Planner 1

Looks nice, cart is an el cheapo though. You might have problems with a spring suspended 'table depending on where you live. Wood floors and heavy footfall can cause problems.

 

Oh....A new TD203 with Ortofon Blue cart is on sale here in states for $699 in a few places. I sent back a Rega Planar 2 with clicking motor, and got Thorens TD203 as a replacement.

 

They actually do. Both in the factory with meticulous control as well as requiering the supplier to do so. More likely that it got damaged during shipping.

 

I agree with others. Just get a new cart for the 300£ or start saving up for some actual substantial upgrade.

 

Exactly. So many people make lateral moves. It takes a chunk of change with turntables to really see(hear) an improvement. No manufacturer can make a $1500 turntable and sell it for $500. And why would they even want to ? I think from entry level, you need to jump to mid level($1500 ?) for a substantial improvement. Just my opinion....but what else is there on here ? LOL.

 

The Rega P1 is a backwards move, sideways at best, compared to the ‘90s Pro-ject P2.

If your P2 motor is quiet, if the original feet are intact and in good condition, if the plinth does not have any cracks, and if the tonearm bearings are still tight, upgrade the cartridge. An Ortofon 2M Red cartridge will work very well with the P2 tonearm. The Ortofon 2M Red is a remarkable step up from the ancient (in cartridge years) 510 MK II. The 510 MK II was a base model budget cartridge - well made and certainly reproduced music nicely enough - but you haven’t been hearing a lot of what was recorded in the groove. The 2M Red may be a bit of a revelation for you then, and you might be genuinely pleased to also then realize that the Pro-ject P2 still has some legs.

Upgrading the stylus on the old 510 MK II is also an option, as you already noted. Unfortunately, I think the older body and motor style is still down in the budget sound doldrums compared to a 2M Red. By that I mean that you’ll still be missing far too much music and far too much detail and subtlety. IMO, the Ortofon 2M Red, Bronze and Black are all MM home runs for Ortofon. Wonderful cartridges, competitively priced, compatible with a very broad range of tonearms, and most important they sound absolutely delightful. However, on the Pro-ject P2 tonearm I think the 2M Red is the best match.

I think P2 arm is happiest with a cartridge in the 5-8 g range. Definitely nothing heavier at all because it won’t balance and because even if it could be balanced it wouldn’t sound good (wrong effective mass, etc.).

 

Thanks for the detailed help, would the Bronze be suitable also, or would you stick with the 2m Red.

 

Also, how easy are they to fit for a newbie.

 

There are 3 relevant things I have heard about the Ortofons.
1. Some like the Red and some think its really not a good sounding cart, unless you like treble which it gives in spades.
2. The upgrade between Red to Blue is a big step since its a much more well rounded cart.
3. The upgrade between Blue and Bronze is a much smaller step in comparison.

Never had any but this is what owners of them say.

 

Usually Pro-ject tables would make it easy for you to install these since they work so closely with Ortofon these days. But since you have a much older model I would think its standard difficulty.

These are some things I learnt from first installing my Nagaoka cart and basic setup steps.

Pro tip: Go to your local hifi shop and ask to borrow a stylus tracking force gauge. If they are nice they will lend one out, dont just trust the indications on the counterweights, it can be off the mark sometimes.
Pro tip 2: Dont trust the anti skate either, listen if any channel gives off more distortion and crackles and adjust according to that. You preferably want it to sit still while running on blank vinyl though. Try setting it down on the inner deadwax of a record if you have no blank sided discs and look for skating. Dont know how accurate the anti skate is on your table since newer models use a weight and a string system.

Take your sweet time doing all the installation though.
Follow these basic steps IN ORDER.
1. Turn anti skating OFF and lighten the weight on the back. ( almost broke a cantilever forgetting to do this first.)
2. (KEEP STYLUS PROTECTORS ON, or remove the stylus front part of the cart and place it somewhere safe upside down.) Remove first cart carefully and put on the new one, put on the 4 colored cables first and make sure they sit on good. ( Dont pull on them by the colored part, just the metal end) Dont tighten the screws all the way once fitting the cart, give headroom for adjustment.
3. Set tracking force, preferably with a digital scale. But DONT set the anti skate yet
4. Use your downloded protractor from vinyl engine or ask to borrow/buy one from local shop. Try getting the perfect alignment with the screws paralell and close to the middle of the headshell, not all the way in or out.
5. Tighten the screws once its aligned ( likely 2 hours after fiddling) and check once more in case it moved while the screws were tightened. If its good set the tracking force which I assume is between 1.5 - 2.0 grams and lastly the anti skate to match the tracking force as a starting point. Also if possible, set VTA by lowering or heightening the tonearm until the Stylus is tracking at around 90 degrees to the vinyl. I suggest tacking a high quality picture with your phone and zooming in on the stylus to see better. Listen to an album you know well and adjust further if needed.
Good luck!

 

I recommend the 2M Blue.

 

Because of experience with all the ortofons or? I would think the Blue is the best price for performance cart out of them but please do tell why you recommend it specifically.

 

Just been talking with another guy, and he said to go with the Ortofon 540 mk11, for my deck adding that it is just a simple matter of upgrading the Stylus, as it will give more or less the same result as the 2m bronze and much easier to change?

 

It would be much cheaper and easier to change. If it in fact does work and you are sure that the cartridge body build specs are the exact same for the bronze as they are for your current cart with the exception of the stylus profile then sure.
Im having a hard time beleiving thats the case but if it is then the guy is right.
Do make sure first though.
For example, buying a new stylus for my Nag only costs about a third or even less of the actual cartridge price. Im pretty sure I cant just get a higher end Nag cart stylus and fit it on for better performance though, I would need the internal parts of the higher end carts too.

 

I have heard the Red and I own both the Blue and Bronze. Out of the three the Bronze is my favorite, smooth and detailed.

But for the price range the OP is talking about the Blue is the best bang for the buck.

 

You, good people, might be able to decipher this review of the 540 and make comparisons:

Ortofon’s Series 500 moving-magnet phono cartridges were designed to compete with digital sound sources by emulating their response uniformity and low distortion while retaining the musical qualities often associated with analog music reproduction.

We tested the top of the line, the Model 540, fitted with a fine-line stylus. The stylus’s contact area with the groove wall closely resembles that of a cutting stylus, which gives it an extended high-frequency response, rated to 27,000 Hz, and lower distortion when playing high-level passages.

The Model 540 carries a 90-micron tracking ability rating. This rating is based on a nominal 1.5-gram tracking force. The black, plastic-encapsulated cartridge body weighs 5 grams.

Lab Tests

We installed the cartridge in the medium-mass tonearm of a good, popular-priced turntable. We used the rated tracking force of 1.5 grams and a load of 47,000 Ohms and 140-picofarads for our measurements.

The cartridge’s output was 3.7 millivolts at a recorded velocity of 3.54 cm/s, with a channel imbalance of only 0.35 dB. The vertical tracking angle was 22 degrees. Frequency-response and crosstalk measurements with two test records (the CBS CTC 300 and the older STR 100) yielded similar results. Cartridge response was very flat, within about 1 dB, well beyond 10,000 Hz and rose by 1 to 3 dB at 20,000 Hz. The channel separation was rather asymmetrical, which is not uncommon among cartridges, with readings of 15 to 25dB over the full frequency range.

The true mettle of the Ortofon 540 was revealed in its tracking ability. It easily handled the very high-level 32-Hz tones of the Cook 60 test record, and the 30-cm/s 1,000-Hz tones of the Fairchild 101 record were reproduced with only the moderate peak-flattening typical of this record (but with no sign of mistracking). Playing the DIN 45549 test record, the Model 540 tracked the 110-micron level at 315 Hz, the first cartridge in our experience to do so, far surpassing its 90-micron rating. Other tracking tests with the CBS CTC 300 test record indicated that the cartridge could track the 100-micron lateral section and the maximum-level 63-micron vertical section.

Comments

Our measurements indicate that the Ortofon Model 540 is one of the top-performing cartridges of today [1989] and possibly of all time. It seems unlikely that any recording will exceed its tracking abilities. Its frequency-response was also very uniform (we have seen a few others with comparable flatness, but they are rare.) The channel separation, though falling a little short of the cartridge’s ratings, was nevertheless adequate for full stereo effect. The output was higher than that of cartridges of comparable quality, though not enough to make a significant difference.

We found no surprises in listening to the Model 540. Its sound quality and clarity are certainly close to those of a CD player (some might say better, but we won’t get into that!). Only an occasional tick or pop gave away the analog nature of the source.

Ortofon has demonstrated quite effectively that the LP is not yet dead and that first-rate playing quality is possible from a reasonably priced cartridge.

 

So of the things said here Im pretty sure the only benefits you will receive from buying this stylus is the tracking ability.

"The true mettle of the Ortofon 540 was revealed in its tracking ability. It easily handled the very high-level 32-Hz tones of the Cook 60 test record, and the 30-cm/s 1,000-Hz tones of the Fairchild 101 record were reproduced with only the moderate peak-flattening typical of this record (but with no sign of mistracking). Playing the DIN 45549 test record, the Model 540 tracked the 110-micron level at 315 Hz, the first cartridge in our experience to do so, far surpassing its 90-micron rating. Other tracking tests with the CBS CTC 300 test record indicated that the cartridge could track the 100-micron lateral section and the maximum-level 63-micron vertical section."

Other than this its up to your current cartridge specs, which I dont know of, to handle the actual sound. Do wait for someone who can tell you about your specific cartridge and how it would perform with this cartridge front part and preferably also your entire hifi system in mind.

 

Here are the specs for the 500 series:

500 Series

and the 2M series:

https://www.ortofon.com/media/14803/2m-series-brochure-2013_web.pdf

 

It would seem from looking at the specs that we can indeed conclude that you can switch out styli like the man said without any compatibility issues. Besides that there seem to be some minor spec differences in the actual cart but I am unqualified to tell how those differences actually impact the sound. If there are differences that change the sound beyond these specs I can not tell you either. But I can say that you will benefit in tracking and possibly less surface noise. Not to understate tracking ability either. The main benefit I received from my Nag upgrade was indeed the superior tracking. I did experience some deeper bass and somewhat finer fidelity, but other than that the sound wasnt hugely different. This could be because of my overall system not being up to par to translate the superior sound entirely, which is why I implore someone to go over your entire setup to see what where it might be lacking the most. I dont know if that was the actual reason though, at least until I get better amps.

The Red vs Blue specs seem rather small as well but going off of the rumors the difference in sound should be very noticeable.

 

If your budget is sufficient, go for the 2M Bronze. If at some point in the future you decide to replace the P2, the 2M Bronze will alao do very well in any popular, contemporary tonearm design. It’s a very good cartridge.

 

Follow the instructions and be patient with yourself. Re-read the instructions, again and again if necessary. Watch the professional YouTube videos on fitting a 2M cartridge.

 

I like the earlier comment about keeping the weight of the cartridge within a range, but would say in my experience even going as heavy as the 2M series at 7.2 grams probably warrants a heavier counterweight. I had a Music Hall MMF-5 that had a similar Pro-Ject tonearm, if not the same. I installed a cartridge that weighs 7.4 grams and couldn’t even balance it. I thought it seemed better suited for the lower weight of the Goldring 1042 or Eroica that I also used on that turntable.

 

How would I find out what the weight range is on my tonearm, as the 2m Bronze Agitator recommends looks to be right on the button?

 

I wonder why the solution that I offered in the other thread you posed the same question in, and which you seemed to agree was ideal, is not being implemented. It offered the most economical and best quality upgrade solution for you. I suggested that you simply buy the replacement stylus 530 which is a line contact type, an upgrade in itself, and then use the money saved to buy the new Rega Fono MM, which will allow the new cartridge to reach its potential. Both the cartridge and the phono stage are super performers at very attractive prices, which will compliment each other nicely.
-Bill

 

I bought a heavier weight here -

https://www.needledoctor.com/Pro-ject-95g-Counterweight-for-9-9C-10C

I had the Pro-Ject 9 tonearm, so it was just a matter of moving up to the 95g counterweight. I would guess Henley stocks all this in the UK.