Project VCS ALU vs VPI 16.5

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by LPhound15, Jan 28, 2020.

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  1. LPhound15

    LPhound15 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Omaha Nebraska
    Hello All,

    I know there are many threads on RCMs, but I haven't seen any specifically regarding these two machines, so I thought I'd ask for input. I know the VCS ALU is new but for those who have had experience with both machines, which would you pick?

    The ALU seems to be the better constructed machine, but I'm somewhat concerned about the long term reliability/ability to repair it vs the VPI. (Given that the VPI has been made for 40 years, and I can order parts like a replacement motor if need be.

    Thanks for any advice in advance.
     
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  2. LPhound15

    LPhound15 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Omaha Nebraska
  3. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    I'm sure you can order a motor for the Project if need. The VPI is now over priced with the Project VCS as an option, before the VCS came out I could never justify $800 for a RCM. Also the VPI platter is full size which may contaminate the clean side and I think it only turns in 1 direction. The VCS has a label size platter, nothing touches the clean record side and the motor turns in both directions.
    My guess is the VPI vacuum is stronger but not sure how much more.

    The Project is a great value IMO.
     
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  4. BigMeanPunk

    BigMeanPunk Member

    Location:
    Boston
    I bought an Okki Nokki a couple years ago to upgrade from my Record Doctor. It looks like something went wrong with the reservoir at some point (i always drained it after every cleaning session) as all the excess fluid seemed to just be in the chamber not in the tiny tupperware. Since it is way out of warranty and I have stacks of records I need cleaning, I am looking to get a new RCM. I have been eyeing the Pro-ject VCS Alu. Do the goat hair brushes out there do a good enough job? I have been using Disc Doctor brushes forever and I just don't see how I can continue to use them on a platter-less RCM. I got away with them on the Record DR as I could apply a bit of pressure right where the vacuum slot was. Also does anyone know if the all the vacuum arms are the same across all the models? I would like to get a 7" arm at the same time and I only see them labeled as VCS...
     
  5. intensemojo

    intensemojo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Love my Project VCS Alu - While I have cleaned only 300 or so records in the two months I've had it, it's worked flawlessly. Truly made me fall in love with LPs again. Highly recommended.
     
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  6. GyroSE

    GyroSE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    Why not wait for the new Okki Nokki ONE intead? It’s optional to use it with a big platter or like on the Pro-Ject with a label sized platter and the suction arm is adjustable for leasing 7”, 10” or 12” records.
     
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  7. Michael Renwick

    Michael Renwick https://www.reddit.com/r/VPIturntables/

    Location:
    Colorado
    I had the Project machine for 1 day and sent it back, granted it was the older version.
    It was terrible, left the records wet and the build quality was poor.

    I have read reviews of the VPI and over and over again they start with "I've had this for 20 years" I have also used this unit at a dealer. I much preferred being able to push down on the record, couldn't do that with the Project.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2020
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  8. I've had a VPI HW-17 RCM for a few years now. It cleans records better than many other RCM's, but it leaves something to be desired. The records may look great after cleaning, but it still leaves stuff in the grooves requiring more intense cleaning. The record labels often get wet and it doesn't spread the cleaning fluid out very well. I've tried several types of cleaning fluids from VPI, Vinyl Solutions, Phoenix and the latest from Mofi. All these fluids bead up on the record. Seeing the videos for the Pro-Ject VCS-S2, their fluid seems to spread evenly. I have some on order as well as one of their goat hair brushes.
    Asking VPI about my concerns for the VPI RCM not cleaning records satisfactorily, I've received some strange responses. First time, they said that they would have to ask one of their engineers and get back to me. They never did. The next time I contacted VPI, they wanted pictures of the RCM before they could help me. Heck, they made the RCM and they don't know what it looks like.
    Had I to do it over again today, I would seriously consider the VCS ALU. For one thing, it costs about 1/3 of the VPI unit I bought. I would also seriously consider an ultrasonic RCM. People that I know, who have had multiple different RCM's, swear by the ultrasonic cleaning. The trouble is, the records had to dry after cleaning. When you have an RCM with a built-in vacuum, it's clean and play.
     
  9. Old Zorki II

    Old Zorki II Storm Watcher

    Location:
    near Tampa, FL
    I wonder if Ultrasonic contraption (you can get one for around $400 all in) plus RCM is a ticket..
     
  10. The combination of cleaning ultrasonically and then finishing up with a vacuum-based RCM might surely be the ticket, if you have the counterspace. You can put together your own ultrasonic rig for far less than $400.
     
  11. Old Zorki II

    Old Zorki II Storm Watcher

    Location:
    near Tampa, FL
    You may, but it will a bit more difficult one to use. Liftwable rotating gizmo I was not able to find for less then $200. You can probably assemble one for $200, but it will not be very convenient, at least not with my hands )).
     
  12. You can buy a suitable ultrasonic cleaner tank from many different sources for cheap. There are also motorized units which you just mount your records in and lower it into your own cleaning tank for a reasonable price. Everything should be under $400. total. Just as for making your own record cleaning solution, all you need is distilled water, Dawn dishwashing detergent and the most expensive component, especially if you air-dry is Kodak Photo-flo.
     
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  13. BigMeanPunk

    BigMeanPunk Member

    Location:
    Boston
    I probably should, but I have a rather large backlog of LPs that need cleaning and since I am currently in lock down I was using this time to get through them all. I think I am going to pull the trigger on the Pro-ject and maybe when the One is available I could probably sell the VCS and my old Okki Nokki to put towards it.
     
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  14. geodiak

    geodiak Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rhodes, Greece
    When Okki Nokki one will be available ?
    Thanks .
     
  15. displayname

    displayname Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas
    Also curious about this. I haven't seen any timelines for the US market. Not sure I want to hold my breath waiting for it. EMEA markets would be getting it sooner I'd imagine.
     
  16. monovinyl

    monovinyl Senior Member

    Has any other RCM been proven to clean better than a VPI 16.5? Just curious...I have (two) 16.5's. I can't imagine another RCM doing a better job...or am I wrong? BTW - I purchased my first 16.5 in 1989!
     
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  17. PATB

    PATB Recovering Vinyl Junkie

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    I bought my VPI 16.5 from @GoldprintAudio just over a year ago. Have cleaned 100+ records since then. No complaints.

    I initially used a second mat for cleaning each side but stopped doing so -- the mat doesn't get dirty unless you put very filthy records on it. I also vacuum (hah!) or brush the mat after each cleaning session. I wouldn't clean very filthy records even on my Record Doctor V, which does not have a full platter, unless you want to keep replacing the velvet lips.
     
  18. BigMeanPunk

    BigMeanPunk Member

    Location:
    Boston
    I did pull the trigger on the Pro-ject VCS 2 ALU.. so far I am liking it. I have probably done about 20 records or so and they have come out well. A couple were pretty wrecked. The brush that comes with it, is slightly larger than it needs to be. When using it, it has a way of dripping fluid over the edge and transferring it to the other side. I had an extra OKKI NOKKI brush that works much better. One thing that has been a HUGE plus for me is the lack of static. My Okki Nokki if I went more than one revolution of the vac, would charge up the record every single time. As soon as I would go to lift it off the platter I could hear the crackles. It would do it most times even with one revolution. With the Pro-ject I haven't had a single static charge yet. I vac it 2 times one way and 1 the other and it has been great!

    I was thinking that for 10" and 7" records instead of buying extra wands, I could get some nice tubing in the correct sizes and just slide it over the full size wand. I really don't see how that could hurt anything. Unless of course there is something I don't know about...
     
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  19. displayname

    displayname Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas
    Any chance you've tried this yet? Curious to know how it works out.
     
  20. luckybaer

    luckybaer Thinks The Devil actually beat Johnny

    Location:
    Missouri
    My Okki Nokki went out about a month or two after the initial 12 month warranty. I contacted support, and paid $99 total for shipping and repair. They were pretty quick, too. I think it took 3 days to get to them, 3 days for them to work on it, and 3 days shipping back to me. Just a consideration. FWIW, this was during the height of COVID-19 insanity.

    So... if you like the Okki Nokki, paying $99 to get it repaired is a good alternative to spending >=$599 for a new, similar RCM.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
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  21. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    I use a plastic bag and the suction holds it perfectly in place.
     
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  22. Joel S

    Joel S Forum Resident

    I know this is an old thread, but for anybody with the VC-S2, does it pick up all the fluid in one rotation or does it require multiple rotations? One of the advantages of the 16.5 is its ability to vacuum up all the fluid in one rotation. Thanks.
     
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  23. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    it takes maybe 2-3 rotations. We’re talking just a few seconds, the platter spins fairly quickly.
     
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  24. Joel S

    Joel S Forum Resident

    Yeah, I hadn't thought of that. The vacuum is probably on about the same amount of time.
     
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