Proper Cartridge Loading Can Make a Big Difference

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Raylinds, Feb 6, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. gakerty

    gakerty Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    Have the XP-15 set at 333 ohms right now. Listening to Kenny Burrell with Art Blakey 45 RPM at the Five Spot I just got. It's a beautiful recording. Cymbals are airy and sparkly like a Delos can be. If anything, it sounds less closed in than the 100 ohms and below I was using. Thanks for the loading suggestion, I'll keep it here for a while.
     
    Catcher10 likes this.
  2. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    As it settles in, and the XLR cable settles, you should get a wider soundstage and more dynamics and resolution coming thru. Yes a higher loading gives a more open sound, your suspension will thank you, should not be as stiff now, adding more life (hours) to your cartridge.

    Enjoy!
     
    Heckto35 and gakerty like this.
  3. Chameleon

    Chameleon Member

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Can you describe what you did? A circuit schematic might be useful.
     
  4. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    The "Circuit" can be be as little as a DIP socket in a box with RCAs in and out, where all the pins on one side are joined to signal, and the other to ground. You plug in various capacitors or resistors to increase the capacitance (addition) or reduce the load impedance (use parallel resistor calculator).
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  5. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    I built the phono Adjuster because there is a need for it.
    The box provides a means of increasing capitance.
    And increasing loading
    And a mono switch.
    Inside thete are 2 rows od dip switches
    Each row has 8 switches
    First row has 8 switches with 120pf capacitors connected in paralell
    2nd row has 1 x 50pf cap
    And 7 x 220 ohms.
    To simplify and spare those of us
    Calculating paralell loading
    220 x1, = 38K
    220x2 = 33k
    220 x3 = 28k
    220 x4 = 25K
    220 X5 = 22K
    220 X6 . = 20K
    220 X7 18K

    Due to the fact im stupid
    I cannot upload photos.
    I.made a few ot these boxes
    Never got round to putting them on Ebay
     
    patient_ot likes this.
  6. Chameleon

    Chameleon Member

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Thanks for the info. I'm not sure about your self-deprecating comment. After all, the values are correct, so it must be wrong.
    Are the lowest capacity leads not necessarily the best without some additional capacity?
    The square box across the top with the mountains and square sun is for the URL of images, but that probably doesn't help if they're stored locally.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 17, 2019
  7. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Can I ask what may seem a silly question to those more educated?

    I am running a Goldring Eroica into a Graham Slee Era Gold V phono stage. Would it be preferable to run an MM instead for the benefit of loading? Am I likely to get a better sound with an MM cart.

    I have been thinking of changing carts for some time and would appreciate some thoughts.

    At some stage, I will probably upgrade my phono stage and go for one with low output MC input but don’t have the funds yet to do that. So for the time being, I am sticking with the Era Gold V.

    Am I better off running it with an MM. I’ve been thinking of picking up one of the Nagoaka carts as I favour warmth over bright, analytical.
     
  8. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Using short, low capacitance phono leads allows you to choose a low capacitance with your loading box or phono pre, instead of having a minimum capacitance set by the cables.

    I drew up a DIP switch board you could put in a hobby box, if you still need a "circuit". This just connects loading components between signal and ground.

    [​IMG]

    Copper goes on the opposite side of components. Where there are black traces, just bridge terminals with solder (and bare wire if needed). If not using a 3-strip perfboard, you have to additionally solder where the PCB copper would connect the components.

    Separate ground wires are shown to support true balanced phono stages via ground-isolated RCA jacks, but this could be simplified if you just use the box's chassis ground or connect channel grounds together.

    For a MC loading box, instead, one could instead use only resistors, such as 2200 + 820 + 330, to give many options to reduce the MC phono stage's load value (a parallel resistor calculator would be required to build a table for all 8 possible values).
     
  9. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    I agree that changing loading makes an audible, if subtle difference. It's the "proper" part that isn't cut in stone. Whatever sounds better to your ears is what's proper, not some definitive yardstick. I've found some cartridges to sound better to me loaded differently than what the manufacturer suggests. Other manufacturers, knowing this to be true, will just recommend a range: I've seen recommended loading as ">100 Ohm" many times, particularly with Denon carts. Case in point: Denon 301/II - I find it to sound its best at about 220 Ohm load. Your ears may tell you something different, though - and it will be "proper" for you.
     
  10. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Don’t all answer at once
     
  11. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    Unless the goldring is a high output mc
    You need to use a head amp first.
    This will load the mm stage properly.
    I use one into my grahame Slee golden era
    5
     
  12. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    I think you misunderstood my question...sorry, I probably didn't explain properly. I was just trying to work out if its better to go for an MM cartridge with an MM phono stage rather than a high output MC cartridge. I know you can technically use both, but would an MM sound better due to a better match with regards to loading specs.

    Just to clarify, im currently using a Goldring Eroica high output MC and wondering about trying an MM cart or whether i should stick to high output MC.
     
  13. soundQman

    soundQman Senior Member

    Location:
    Arlington, VA, USA
    IIRC Moving Magnet cartridges typically call for 47K ohms loading. Most preamps have this available as one of the standard settings, or perhaps the only setting if it has a MM-only phono stage.
     
  14. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    You didn't provide the information for anyone to answer.

    You can do your own research and see that the H version of the cart has MM loading specs while the LX version wants 100 ohms and is lower output than a MM input gain expects.
     
  15. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    Well i recently used a 10X5 with the Grahame Slee and it produced truly excellent results.
    Sorry i misunderstood problem
     
    richbdd01 likes this.
  16. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Thanks, no worries. I guess im just trying to gauge how important the match is? I guess most MM phono stages are 47kohm and most MM carts are a similar output to each other 4-5.5mv ....so what happens if you run your 10x5 at a different loading? It doesnt have half the gain of the MM carts...?
     
  17. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    But a high output MC is a lower output than most MM carts....so my question is - is buying a high output MC counter productive as its doesn't have as much gain and wont be as much of an ‘ideal’ match if being used into an MM phomo stage like the GS era gold v. Just trying to understand this a little better that's all...
     
  18. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    The output is the voltage that comes out of the cartridge when playing a reference level track. 2.5mV vs an average MM cart's 5.0mV just makes it 6dB quieter compared to your other audio inputs. It is only a concern when also using a noisy phono stage; most all-tube phono stages, for example, use a step-up-transformer to boost the low moving coil voltage instead of using electronic amplification.
     
    richbdd01 likes this.
  19. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    Many phono stages have a sensitivity
    Of 2mv.
    My dynavector at 2.5 was silent even at high volume.
    I dont think you are at a disadvantage here.
    The outstanding sound quality of MC
    Will be felt in my opinion
     
    unityofsaints likes this.
  20. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    My Denon DL-110 sounded best at 1000 or 2000 Ohms, but of course it was recommended 47K, right? Several AT carts I've owned (MM) sounded much better @ 32K or so. You can put on some pink noise and see the results if you measure.

    Gain is its own part of the equation and is just as important. It's certainly a goldilocks sort of situation and most everyone is just fine with too hot or too cold.
     
    patient_ot and richbdd01 like this.
  21. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    If HOMC is what you want, I don't see any reason not to get it. The GS ERA Gold, like other GS phono stages, is meant to take any cart from 2mV to 10mV. Many HOMC are at least 2mV if not a little more. Even odd ducks like the Denon DL-110 measure more like 2mV rather than the 1.6mV spec.

    RE: loading, you can simply add loading plugs to your existing phono stage if you need to. Although in theory most HOMCs are spec'd at 47K loading they may do better at other loadings like @jupiterboy said. You'll need a test record with a frequency sweep or a pink noise track to be sure, or you can experiment by ear based on what anecdotal reports are saying for that particular cartridge.
     
  22. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    A y adapter x2 and loading plugs
    Can be easily be made.
    On line you will find a paralell loading
    Calculator

    Add the 47k and it will calculate
    Correct value resistor to fit in loading plug.
    You could make a few at different values and listen


    for yourself
     
    richbdd01 and patient_ot like this.
  23. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    The HO Eroica im using needs a fair bit of juice. If the record is mastered reasonably quiet, i have to push my amp way up on the volume....and my amp is 200w per channel! Maybe i should try boosting it with one of these plugs. I have no idea how to do it though or how much i would need so ill have to maybe look into it. My cart is rated at about 2.0mv i think...
     
  24. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    Say thr reccommended is 18k

    Use on line calculator
    Add 47k and values at random till you
    Find optimum value.
    Buy a resistor to the value and solder it
    Inside plug
     
  25. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    The plugs change the resistive load, but not the gain. The gain from your cart is below the nominal input sensitivity for your phono amp. Graham Slee doesn't give the usual dumbed down gain specs, but you would probably benefit from a phono preamp with 44 or 46 db gain.
     
    richbdd01 and patient_ot like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine