Q about Michael Jackson's "Baby be Mine" on "Thriller"...

We were playing this album today (what an extraordinary release... it's such a sad thing we already "lost" (so to speak) Michael Jackson), and on "Baby be Mine", my wife and I noticed that at the end of the track there's some tape slowdown, and then a speed-up. I don't know if I make sense - it sounds as a compact cassette that was exposed to the sun.

Is this normal? We found it on the SACD and on the CD remaster (the "Special Edition").

BTW - is it just me, or does the SE has lots more bass?

 

I don't hear it. Can you specify the time where it happens?

I would concur about the bass. I like it though.

 

I remember this "tape drag" being mentioned in another forum. It's definitely there, though it's very subtle.

 

It's not subtle at all! We weren't listening to the disc, and we both noticed.

I'll try to find the time where this happens, but trust me on this one... it's very easily heard.

BTW - I do like the SE. Maybe a bit more than the SACD. It may not be a "flat" transfer (whatever that means!), but I find the EQ suits the music a lot better.

 

There's 2 other 'glitches' I have identified on this album. A few seconds into "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" there's a sort of short thunk sound on the right channel. (sorry, can't remember the second one at the moment).

Also, is it just me or is there some kind of subtle sort of buzzing distortion in the high frequencies of Jackson's voice (not the accompaniment) in "The Lady Of My Life"? It is just on that song that I hear this. BTW, "The Girl Is Mine" sounds quite nice to these ears.

Other than these I really like this SACD.

Now that I am talking about errors on disks, there's also a small glitch at the end of Billy Joel's "52nd Street" (the song) in the stereo version on the SACD. As it is fading out, the music skips as if the master tape had broken and they had spliced it again.

 

FJHuerta, there's a key change there. Are you sure you are not mistaking it for a change in speed?

 

I thought at first it was a key change, but I believe the rythm slows as well, and then picks up speed.

I heard something similar on the Isaac Hayes' "Hot Buttered Soul" SACD, on "Walk on By", during the final jam... is it something that is usually done on purpose?

 

That is not a key change in the remastered versions of "Baby Be Mine." It is definitely tape drag.

[EDIT]: See post below.

 

Hmmm, as thechief123 said before, it would surely help to know where is it exactly that you hear it happen.

 

Good Lord, I think I am mistaken! How could this be?!

I just listened to the SACD and original made in Japan-for-US pressing and found the “tape drag” moment at 3:31 on both discs. My musician friend says yes, it is modulation and done on purpose.

I want to listen to the SE, but it’s buried under boxes of other CDs, so I’ll eventually check that disc out.

 

Damn, you're right. I HAVE noticed it before, but I never questioned it. At 3:31. It HAS to be intentional, right?

Its a terrible shame indeed. But he gave us nearly 20 years of quality music. Personal life aside, he was never going to top Off The Wall, or Thriller. Until 1995, I kept hoping he'd pull it together and make another great album. History and Invincible ended my hope.

 

That's exactly the key change (modulation) I was talking about. That is normal. It's just that the way it is used is probably more natural to jazz than to a pop tune. This comes to show what a jazz man (in this case Quincy Jones) can do to spice up a pop tune. There are a few more examples of jazzy approaches being used within the context of pop in this album. To me, this is part of what makes it interesting.

 

That's NOT tape drag. It's definately a key change.

BTW, give me the SACD anyday!

 

That was always my favorite spot on the album!

Maybe a career in pop record production is not in my future?

 

So, can someone please explain what went on? It sure does sound to me as if the tape was slowed down. Is this what was done in this song?

After listening to it on the SACD and the SE, I thought it weird that it was merely an "accident", though it does sound weird.

Still - *what an album*. No wonder I listened to it non-stop for years!

 

Concentrate on the drums at that point. No slowdown. Now, play the section again and concentrate on the vocals. No slowdown.

 

FJHuerta, what Quincy Jones did there was go directly for the key change instead of 'moving towards it' (preparing it) before hitting it, which tends to be the more common way of approaching one.

 

What I have found is that people don't like changing keys on a dime. They like gradual transitions.

 

You are right, Grant. The song is playing in the background, and the drums keep the same rythm all the time.

It sounds a bit abrupt to me.

The thing is, how come I never noticed until yesterday? I must have destroyed two LP's from playing them...

 

I never noticed it until people in the ICE forum started complaining about it when the remaster came out.

 

Yes, I was one of, if not THE, culprit in that forum.

And I am not one of those "people don't like changing keys on a dime – they like gradual transitions." I just thought that key change sounded weird in a pop song by Michael Jackson. *shrug*

 

No offense man, but, I have found that many people don't like those kinds of key changes in music. One song that comes to mind is "Absolute Beginners" by David Bowie. It drives many people crazy.

 

I would believe what Al says. He is or was a major CD reissue producer and mastering engineer at Sony!