Q for obsessive Beatles collectors and trivia buffs

I'm currently trying to put together a reasonably comprehensive Beatles collection on CDR as a birthday present for my niece, using my own collection as a starting point. To limit the scope of this undertaking, I have set the following criteria:

* The collection will cover the official catalogue as released in the U.K. by the band's final lineup from 1962 to 1970; i.e. all the LPs, EPs and singles from the original Love Me Do single up to and including the Let It Be album -- NO Pete Best or Tony Sheridan, Live at the Hollywood Bowl, Anthology series, and the like.

* The collection will also include official EMI mixes created, if not necessarily released, during the band's active period; for example, the stereo versions of the German-language tracks, which were mixed in 1964 but not released in the U.K. until 1979.

* The collection will include only commercial U.K. record releases; i.e. NO Christmas Fan Club stuff, film soundtrack remixes or Get Back session tracks.

* The collection will NOT include Capitol remixes or rare anomalies found on non-U.K. releases.

* The collection will NOT include post-1970 EMI remixes; e.g. the 1971 stereo remix of Strawberry Fields Forever, the remixed Love Songs tracks, the official CDs of Help! and Rubber Soul, the Yellow Submarine Songtrack, and the like.

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At this time, I only have the following track sources:

* The entire official EMI CD catalogue, including Past Masters 1 and 2, the red and blue comps, and the singles and EP collections.

* Needle-drop CDRs of the original 12 (non-comp) U.K. albums, including both mono and stereo mixes where appropriate.

I am prepared to obtain bootlegs to fill in the gaps in my own collection, but I will NOT be obsessive and go to the ends of the earth chasing after the best possible sound quality.

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Now for the question (finally!):

I'm making a list of the tracks covered by my criteria that aren't to be found among my existing sources. So far, the list contains the following:

* From Me to You (stereo mix, March 1963) - released in 1966 on the stereo U.K. Collection of Beatles Oldies

* Komm Gib Mir Deine Hand (stereo mix, March 1964) - released in 1979 on the U.K. Rarities

* Sie Liebt Dich (stereo mix, March 1964) - released in 1979 on the U.K. Rarities

* Bad Boy (mono mix, May 1965) - released in 1966 on the mono U.K. Collection of Beatles Oldies

* Tomorrow Never Knows (mono mix #11, June 1966) - only on the initial U.K. pressing of Revolver

* Strawberry Fields Forever (original stereo mix, Dec. 1966) - released in 1973 on the vinyl U.K. blue album

Are there any other U.K. mixes missing from this list? I know this forum is the right place to ask since there are Beatles fans here who are way more obsessive than I am. Thanks for any info.

(Edited for clarity.)

 

This is from my WWW site which is currently down so I'll post the complete info.

Hope you find it useful.

a) Beatles Sequence

Answers the question "How do I program my multi-CD player to listen to the Beatles' music in the order it was released?".

Song Love Me Do (single version)
Album Please Please Me
Single From Me To You
Thank You Girl
Single She Loves You
I'll Get You
Album With The Beatles
Single I Want To Hold Your Hand
This Boy
EP Long Tall Sally
I Call Your Name
Slow Down
Matchbox
Album A Hard Day's Night
Single I Feel Fine
She's a Woman
Album Beatles For Sale
Single Ticket To Ride
Yes It Is
Song Bad Boy
Single Help (single version)
I'm Down
Album Help
Single We Can Work It Out
Day Tripper
Album Rubber Soul
Single Paperback Writer
Rain
Album Revolver
Single Penny Lane
Strawberry Fields Forever
Album Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
Single All You Need Is Love
Baby You're a Rich Man
Single Hello Goodbye
I'm The Walrus
EP Magical Mistery Tour
Single Lady Madonna
The Inner Light
Single Hey Jude
Revolution (single version)
Album The Beatles
Album Yellow Submarine
Single Get Back (single version)
Don't Let Me Down
Single Ballad of John and Yoko
Old Brown Shoe
Album Abbey Road
Song Across The Universe (birds sounds version)
Single Let It Be (single version)
You Know My Name (Look Up The Number)
Album Let It Be

 

Thanks! The sequence was the next thing I wanted to work on.

 

Actually, I've been waiting for LIVE AT THE HOLLYWOOD BOWL on CD for some years now...grand, brave attempt to make silver out of ******. Almost did it, but indicative of what a Beatles concert was really like...except you can make them out playing as best they could.

Now, back to your thread...have to work on it. How many discs are we talking here? A class guy would just burn EVERYTHING official, from 1962-1970...and look like a really great dude. But you'll still need the boot stereo mix(with US reverb)of "I Feel Fine" and "She's A Woman," at the least...mushy and messy as ever, but nice fun.

ED

 

For what it's worth, those two tracks are actually in *extremely* narrow (so narrow you'd swear it was real mono) stereo on the Past Masters disk. You can get stereo back by doing extreme widening. It's really a lot easier to do this with an analog mixer, and probably gives better quality, but here's an example done with Cool Edit, from the Past Masters Vol. 1 CD:

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~sgraham/temp/Komm, Gib Mir Deine Hand.mp3

I set the amplitude/mixer to "new left = L@1000 R@-1000" and
"new right = L@-990, right @1000", then applied gain to maximize (about 21 dB). It sounds kinda nasty, but there's separation. (Those numbers are only starting points. I was able to do better with analog, but don't have the equipment handy.)

I can't imagine why they mixed it in to "mono" on this CD.

 

"From Me to You" and "Bad Boy" - I do not know if anyone has booted the stereo and mono versions of Collection of Beatles Oldies LP on one disc, but there is a boot of the mono version taken from a 3 3/4 IPS reel on the Mastersounds label. The sound ain't that great but you've already said that's not a priority. You could also use the mono version from the U.S. Beatles VI because it's the same mix.

The two German songs appear in stereo on the U.S. Rarities album. Again, it's the same mixes as the U.K. album. These also appear on the boots "Rarities" on the Beat label and "Something Extra" on Genuine Pig. The latter is pretty awful as a whole IMO.

"Tomorrow Never Knows" remix mono #11 can be found on Turn Me On, Dead Man: The John Barrett Tapes, The Alternate Revolver, and one of the Artifacts collections has it.

I don't know anything about the original stereo mix of "Strawberry Fields". Is that the same mix used on the U.S. MMT? That version has reverb and the orchestra pans from left to right when it comes in. Oddly, I haven't seen it booted although it does appear the three-disc Japanese set The Beatles Story, a semi-legit import release.

I hope that helps. Please tell me what that stereo mix of SFF is all about.

 

I'm guessing about 18 discs, if sequenced with regard for chronology and presentation. I suppose you could get it all into fewer discs if you just cram whatever you can to fill the 80 min. limit, but I don't want to do that.

I do have a few boots of the U.S. remixes, but I'm not including those on my niece's collection. She just became a Beatles fan two months ago and this set will be overwhelming enough without my confusing her with too many variants.

 

Re: Re: Q for obsessive Beatles collectors and trivia buffs

Neat!

Maybe someone (George Martin?) didn't want to use any of the "ultrawide stereo" mixes on the CDs. We'll never know, I guess.

 

Re: Re: Q for obsessive Beatles collectors and trivia buffs

Thanks for the tips.

The original 1966 stereo mix of SFF is indeed the one on the U.S. MMT LP and came out later in the U.K. on the vinyl blue album. It is not available on any "fully legit" CD. The 1971 remix, which is the one used on the official MMT and blue album CDs, was first released in Germany and doesn't have that orchestra pan you described. Here's more from http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/beatles/var-1966.html --

"The newer stereo mix [c] was once known as the German stereo mix and is now the standard CD stereo mix. It has better percussion sound than the older stereo mix and more stereo separation. The older mix has a nice effect at the edit, quickly moving the cello and trumpet track across the image from left to right, where it stays, distracting the listener from the edit itself; in the newer mix [c] this track just starts suddenly on the right. The swordmandel at the start of both verse 2 and 3, which sounds like a harp, moves from left to right in the newer mix [c], while it's just centered in the older one . John counts down the rest before the start of verse 2 and 3, properly mixed out in the older mix but heard in the newer one [c]. The fadeout-fadein near the end goes to a moment of silence in the newer stereo mix [c], but comes back immediately in the others. The newer stereo mix [c] has a slightly longer final fade so we hear a second "cranberry sauce" in the drum track, left."

 

Understood. Will get back to you.

ED

 

I don't have the equipment to create CD's, but I did compile a set of the Beatles I named "The EMI Studio Masters 1962 - 1996"

It consists of all their commercial recordings using the UK versions, from the original Love Me Do, up through Real Love. I also placed Abbey Road AFTER Let It Be on my set. The whole thing fit very nicely on 8 CD's, with each one having a running time of 76 minutes or less.

Perhaps, someday, if I purchase a CD recorder, I will create this set for myself.

 

Without having first read the responses:

The stereo "From Me To You" is on the Red 1926-1966.

The mono "Tomorrow Never Knows" is in the original Capitol mono LP of "Revolver".

That stereo mix of "Strawberry Fields Forever" was first released on the MMT EP. It was remixed in 1970. I'm sure Luke will correct me if I am mistaken here. I don't feel like checking my books right now.

IMO, the MONO mixes of the singles is where you want to go because they will give the HISTORICAL accurracy of how the 60s really were, especially in Britain. Forget what most people are *used* to nowadays, go with history as it was. This is MY opinion.

 

Luke hasn't shown up yet, so I'll do it. The 1966 stereo SFF was never included on the MMT EP. It was however on the U.S. MMT LP, later released in the U.K. The stereo version was remixed in 1971 for the German MMT LP.

If I wanted to limit the collection to only one instance of each song, I'd go with mono where mono is available (except for the YS album). But I'd like to give my niece an idea of what was going on in the '60s music scene. She's very sharp and is fascinated with geeky technical stuff.

 

Re: Re: Q for obsessive Beatles collectors and trivia buffs

Good Lord!! He's absolutely f---ing right!!! "Komm, Gib Mir Deine Hand" (and also "Sie Liebt Dich") is indeed in the most extremely narrow stereo ever!. I'm shocked.

What you do is you make two separate "difference/oops" mix downs, one slightly emphasizing one channel and the other empahasizing the other channel or both channels equaly. The emphasis needed is less than a decibel. The two resulting mixes are bearly audible before amplification but when amplified you get one mixdown of mostly intruments and another of mostly vocals.

It's funny how EMI couldn't even do a mono fold-down right!.

Luke, check it out.

Lance Hall

 

Re: Re: Re: Q for obsessive Beatles collectors and trivia buffs

But why would they have needed to make a fold-down? If they wanted mono mixes, they could have used the ones released in Germany. Weird.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Q for obsessive Beatles collectors and trivia buffs

I guess they couldn't find any mono masters and had to mix down from the stereo mixes, who knows...

Anyway you've made a neat discovery.

Lance Hall

 

Was I unclear? As I mentioned in the original post, I'm putting this set together for my niece, and I'm using the project as an excuse to fill in the gaps in my own collection. She's only 11 and has recently been showing signs of becoming a fanatical collector like her uncle. She likes knowing technical details behind the films and music she's into (she listens to directors' commentaries, and she figured out the merits of viewing movies in their original aspect ratio without anyone having to explain it to her). She knows very little about pre-'80s music, and I'm sure she'd be fascinated to know that the Beatles and other artists of that era released records in mono and stereo versions that are often significantly different from one another. I'd like to be instrumental in letting her hear these differences for herself.

 

I'd guess she'd be fascinated by the documentary on the making of Sgt. Pepper's.

I taped it years ago from Cinemax --I guess-- but I believe it is available in DVD.

Please don't be disheartened when some months from now she compeltely forgets about the Beatles and gets passionate about the current singing-and-dancing boys corporate assembly.

She'll always have a place in her heart for the Beatles and his uncle, but it won't be obvious

 

Actually, I saw her little CD collection a couple of years ago and it had stuff like Mariah Carey, Backstreet Boys and Spice Girls in it, so her judgment has actually improved a great deal. I think she's starting to develop her own tastes instead of just going along with whatever her friends are into. Looks hopeful.

 

Sounds like the sensible thing to do is M/S the british albums and add singles & EP cuts as bonus tracks. Of course you'd need some boots to do the early stereo and some of the later mono. That's what I'd do, but my collection on CD isn't complete. For one thing, I missed the mono mix of "Get Back"/"Don't Let Me Down" when it was put out on CD-3 back in the late '80s. Got most of the others, but missed(or forgot)that one. The story of my life So...she likes audio commentaries? Love those myself when they're good...the James Bond DVDs are loaded with them; great fun to hear since I'm so familiar with the films I'd rather learn something while watching them for the 50th time. Great series.

ED

 

That's the plan. I've been juggling track listings and calculating total disc times and whatnot, and I keep running into problems with the "album plus bonus tracks" approach. I've tentatively decided that the most practical way to do it is to put both the mono and stereo versions of each album on one disc (with the exception of the white album, of course). Then I'll put the remaining tracks in chronological order on two additional discs -- one mono, one stereo; in other words, I'd end up with customized "Past Masters" CDRs.

The only bits I'm missing are the six tracks I mentioned earlier. That is, unless Luke or one of the other authorities on Beatles recordings on this forum tells me otherwise.

If you don't mind double-dipping on the other singles, you could probably still get the Singles Collection set somewhere. There's a small record store here in Toronto that always seems to have that and the EP Collection in stock.

Dunno whether she'd get into 007, but she's the only person I know who has gone through ALL the hours of bonus material on the Fantasia Anthology box. I don't have the stamina for that sort of thing anymore -- unless I'm obsessed with it, that is.

 

Well, you're definitely going to make her something to remember. Something, say, Apple Corps and EMI might want to consider. The Stones have been upgraded, about time for the Fabs.
So, uh, she's actually gotten through ALL the FANTASIA extras? Good grief. I'm not sure I've gotten halfway through. Didn't have that problem with SNOW WHITE, since so much duplicated the original laserdisc box. Not the case with the other, which had some extras but nothing like this.

ED

 

Yeah. I took a stab at going through the Fantasia extras myself, but after a few days I forgot what I'd already seen/heard and where I'd left off and gave up. IMO, it's one of the best box sets yet in terms of sheer "definitiveness" (apart from the "censored" bits in the Pastorale sequence, that is), but it's got more background info than any normal person could ever absorb.

 

Re: Re: Q for obsessive Beatles collectors and trivia buffs

Damn, I knew I'd regret it later when I decided not to follow this thread...<g>

That has to be the most narrow stereo I've *ever* heard. Usually I can spot that stuff, but I would have never even *thought* of trying to widen those two.

Strange...