Question For Audio Engineers: Symphonic Recording Mic Techniques

I am very excited to be recording the Eastern Oregon Symphony this weekend. I've never done any classical recording, just rock and country band stuff. My friend's band (The Eastern Oregon Playboys) is performing with the symphony, which complicates things a little. I'll probably just use room mics, and run vocals and guitars and such from the soundboard to have some flexibility. I don't want to get too complicated, as I only have 8 inputs on my Universal Audio Apollo interface.

I would like to experiment with mic techniques. I thought I would use a mid/side setup with my Pearlman TM1 (Neumann U47 clone) as the mid, and my Cascade Fathead II ribbon mic as the side. I thought about having a stereo pair further out on the sides, just for extra options. My question is this: should that pair be omni or cardioid? I have a pair of modded Oktava MC012 small condensers with cardioid, and hyper cardioid capsule pairs. I only have one omni capsule, unfortunately. I could probably borrow a couple of omni capable condensers to place in the room, if that would be a better option.

Thoughts?

 

If your MS rig is in the best position it will not need outriggers
That should be a few feet behind the conductor and 6' above him

 

A common mic technique for orchestral recording also is the Decca Tree...typically uses three omnis, but I see no reason you couldn't put up four mics. One for side, one for mid, and two for Decca Tree (combined with your in-phase mic or even your entire M/S rig as the third).

Here's hoping you don't have to run the sound mix too...that's hard!

 

Decca Trees are not for the first timer Mr Beatle

 

I do have to run the mix, unfortunately! But I've worked with the band before, so it won't be too challenging to get them to blend. My production partner did the arrangements, so things will sound nice.

Thanks for the advice!!

 

Here is the preliminary stage setup. It's a decent sized auditorium. So I should probably put the M/S mics on the edge of the stage, behind the podium? Having a band might complicate that, but I'll make sure they aren't too loud. We can probably put baffles around the drums.

 

I have no experience, but curious to ask. From reading, it looks to me like you want to record multi-track, then mix later. But your advisors, here, want you to use a much simpler arrangement of mics, meaning little or no opportunity later to change the balance of the band versus orchestra. Am I reading this right? Why the different opinions? It seems safer to me (again no experience), to record the orchestra properly (maybe just 2 or 3 microphones) and record the band properly (close and individual, 1 mic per member), using your 8 tracks, so that you can pan and level balance (maybe effects too) them, compared to the orchestra, later as necessary.

 

That's pretty much what I'm going to do. Two to four mics for the orchestra, one mic for the vocalist, one for guitar, one channel for bass, and one for something else. I seriously doubt I'll need anything on the drums. All of the band stuff will come from the soundboard. I just wanted advice on the room micing for the orchestra.

 

Thanks!

 

Just behind the podium or on the floor on a heavy stand, that mic array will be big, sandbag the base.
Mixing different types of mic in MS is not ideal, neither are large diameter condensors used often, however it could be fun
Two ribbons would be better.
If the band is self balancing to the orchestra you may not need much of them but leakage from the FOH PA might be messy
Consider them all as an acoustic event try and keep the sound reinforcement as low as possible
I recorded a Sowetto String Band last year, 30 of em playing ,drumming,singing and dancing to one MS array (MKH 30/30) sounded lovely in a big edwardian hall
However when soloists used the loud PA the magic departed.

 

If you can possibly get an assistant to run the mix while you run the recording, or visa versa, that would be great. I've had to both mix and record and usually the recording suffered. The problem is the first half an hour where you really have to focus on both and it is very hard to do.

I like three spaced omnis for what it's worth, with the side ones a little back and the middle one more toward the orchestra. It isn't the Decca tree mentioned before. The mics are more widely spaced. The center one is the critical mic. It keeps your mix from having a hole in the middle. Bleedthrough from your band mics will also help. They'll pick up a whole bunch of the orchestra.

I'd hang the three omnis from the rafters, leaving them a few feet above the orchestra. It was for jobs like this that years ago I made up three 100' mic cables. They are one of the handiest tools in my toolkit.

If you can record a rehearsal and listen to your tape afterward, it would help immensely. Be prepared for a full house to change the sound but if you've been mixing this band for a while, you know that already.

 

Thanks for all the advice everybody!