Questions re Pioneer PLX-1000 set-up

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Nubben, Feb 3, 2016.

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  1. Mrtn77

    Mrtn77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris
    On my TT at 1,5 antiskate, the tonearm would crash and skid however slowly I lowered the lever.
     
  2. rtrt

    rtrt Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    My arm is damped, just less than i'm used to & not enough for me to be concerned about.

    Re the initial skid - sounds like it could be the underside of the cart bottoming out on the outer lip of the record
     
  3. Davey

    Davey NP: Portishead ~ Portishead (1997)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Before you indicated some bias problems with the tonearm. With the tracking force set to 0 and the arm balanced, is there an anti-skate bias setting that allows the tonearm to move freely throughout its range, and stay balanced at any position without a tendency to move in or out? Could be sticking at some point because of bearings or tonearm wiring, or something wrong with bias spring, or the cueing lever may be sticking, or what rtrt said (make sure cartridge wires aren't hanging down either).
     
  4. Mrtn77

    Mrtn77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris
    Every record I've played since raising my table's anti-skate value have played without skidding.

    On the Vinyl Engine PLX-1000 thread, someone suggested that antiskate values were incorrectly indicated and that they should be multiplied by two, perhaps that's what my issue was ?

    (Here's said post : "All SuperOEM recent turntables (like AT, Reloop, Stanton and so on) have an antiskating knob with dial up to 3g. Pioneer hasn't.Pioneer antiskating dial arrives theoretically to 6 g, the double of other SuperOEM turntable.
    I observed that if I set the cartridge tracking force to 2 g, I need to set the antiskating to 4 to perfectly balance the tonearm skating force. But n.4 Pioneer position of antiskating dial is perfectly at the same position of 2g of other chinese turntables antiskating dial. So, I think that there isn't any problem of antiskating on Pioneer but only a poorly clear indication of antiskating force.
    I think that the antiskating spring in the base of tonearm of Pioneer is the same of the other chinese super OEM turntables.So what you read 4 in the Pioneer antiskating dial is correctly 2 (the half) in practice.
    So if you have set 1,5 g of tracking force, please set 3 on Pioneer antiskating dial. If I'm right you will balance the antiskating and movement of tonearm setting (on Pioneer) the antiskating the double of tracking force.")
     
  5. 33na3rd

    33na3rd Forum Resident

    Location:
    SW Washington, USA
    Replying to my own complaint! :)

    After "Adjusting the Arm Lifter Height", (Page 12 of the PLX-1000 manual), there is now a bit of damping with cue lever that I had not experienced before. I adjusted the height of the Arm Lifter, giving me more clearance between the stylus & LP when in the up position. This has also given me more control when lowering the stylus with the added damping.

    Sweet!
     
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  6. decontrol2

    decontrol2 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    portland,OR
    I recently got the plx 1000 and have been loving it, but I'm a little stumped on the vta settings. I'm running an ortofon 2m bronze and lp gear zupreme headshell and can't seem to find the correct height adjustment. When I first got the table I was running the arm as low as it could possibly go with the bronze, lp gear zupreme headshell and stock rubber mat and the arm and headshell seemed totally level by eye and everything sounded ok. It is a brand new cart so I've been expecting it to break in a little so I wasn't sure what it is supposed to sound like. A few days ago I picked up a headshell bubble level and realized I had to raise the arm a bit to get it totally level. The sound defintly opened up a bit but I lost a decent amount of bass. The thing is the arm doesn't look parallel to the platter. More so tail up. Should I worry about this? If the headshell says it's level with the bubble level but the arm is not? I'm not sure how much I've raised it since I'm unaware how to read the dial. Where exactly is zero? I've read some posts about the arm going a little below zero.
    Thanks so much!
    Ryan
     
  7. decontrol2

    decontrol2 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    portland,OR
    Also, I've been thinking about adding the herbies mat. Since my stock rubber mat (if I remember right) is a little over 4mm would I be okay with the 5mm tall herbies mat?
    Thank again
    Ryan
     
  8. Mrtn77

    Mrtn77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris
    Another overhang question. Should one measure 54mm to the stylus itself or to the cantilever's tip ?
    The manual says one thing and shows another (the illustration on page 4 clearly measures to the cantilever tip).
    Wording in French is no less ambiguous.
     
  9. Stefan

    Stefan Senior Member

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Stylus itself.
     
  10. back2vinyl

    back2vinyl Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    The only aim here is to get the cartridge level. With a one-piece tonearm like the SME V, you can be sure that it's been made so that the cartridge is level when the tonearm level, and therefore, you can use the tonearm as a reference. With a wiggly S-shaped tonearms and detachable headshells, however, the tonearm is not at all a reliable guide to whether the cartridge is level. So forget the tonearm and find some other way of making sure the cartridge is level.

    If you have a headshell where the top surface is perfectly parallel with the mounting surface for the cartridge, then you can use the top of the headshell as your reference. Be careful, though - some headshells look as though top & bottom are parallel, but they're a degree or two out (eg the stock Technics. But the AT knock-off of the Technics is OK.)
     
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  11. Mrtn77

    Mrtn77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris
    Thanks, that's how I'd set it. Wanted to check as I've been getting some harshness and distortion.
    Is the Technics Baerwald alignment tool on offer at Vinyl Engine fit for the PLX-1000 ?
     
  12. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    Nope. Unless you have a cartridge with a long cantilever or an aftermarket headshell with long slots, you can't achieve Baerwald on the PLX. I was able to get it with my Ortofon SH4 headshell, but used every bit of its length.
     
    punkmusick likes this.
  13. Mrtn77

    Mrtn77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris
    I have a SH-4 headshell as well, actually. Is the Technics Baerwald alignment tool fit for the PLX then ?
     
  14. Stefan

    Stefan Senior Member

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    The Technics Baerwald alignment tool has nothing directly to do with the headshell. There only requirement for it to work (in theory) is that the tonearm pivot-to-spindle be the same as for the Technics; that is, 215mm. The PLX1000 specifications state that it does have the same 215mm pivot-to-spindle distance. In practice, the factors of cantilever length and headshell slot length determine whether you can actually achieve a Baerwald.

    The difference between the PLX-1000 and the SL-1200 lies in the length of the tonearm itself. It seems to be 2mm shorter than the Technics, so in order to reach for example the classic Technics alignment (close to Stevenson but not exactly the same), instead of the stylus tip needing to be 52mm from the back of the headshell washer, as if the case for the SL-1200 (and variants), the PLX1000 manual suggests 54mm. I've tested this with an arc protractor and confirmed that placing the tip at 54mm from the back washer does indeed result in the the classic Technics alignment.

    As Helom mentioned, you need a cartridge with a longer cantilever to reach a Baerwald alignment, and it also depends on the headshell used. The stock PLX-1000 headshell is very much a copy of the old Technics MK5 silver headshell but it seems to have slots that are just a tiny bit shorter (probably reinforcing the notion that the 54mm alignment is adequate). The Ortofon SH-4 and the original Technics ones are slightly better. I also have an Audio-Technica HS-10 headshell that's even longer but also slightly heavier at 10g. Finally there are the LPGear Zupreme and Turntableneedles.com Jelco HS-20 headshells, which offer longer slots as well as adjustable azimuth (rotation). These are heavier at around 11g.

    Note that there are variations in available alignments depending on the standards used for inner and outer grooves. The Technics Baerwald alignment tool on the vinylengine website is based on the IEC/RIAA North American standards. On a PLX-1000, a Baerwald IEC/RIAA alignment require the stylus tip to be 56.82mm from the back of the headshell washer and angled towards the spindle 1.663° from the headshell center. You might have better luck achieving a Baerwald DIN alignment (European standard), which would require the tip to be 55.85mm from the washer and angled 1.167° from the headshell center. DIN results in slightly higher average & peak distortion figures (0.465% avg, 0.713% peak( compared to IEC (0.417%avg, 0.64%peak).

    I've noticed for example that my AT cartridges typically have a longer cantilever than my Ortofons. My Ortofon OM and 2M cartridges could not reach a Baerwald IEC/RIAA alignment on an SH-4 whereas my ATs could reach it if placed at the extreme end of the headshell.

    So to sum up, yes the Technics Baerwald alignment tool is valid for the PLX-1000 but will only work if you have a headshell/cartridge combination that will result in the stylus reaching the distance required to successfully trace the arc on the tool.

    This doesn't mean the PLX-1000 is necessarily defective or bad. It simply means it was designed with the 54mm tip to headshell washer distance and cartridge squared in the headshell, which is slightly better than a Stevenson alignment in terms of distortion on the inner 2/3 of a record side.
     
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  15. Mrtn77

    Mrtn77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris
    Thanks, as always, for the detailed answer. Very much appreciated.
     
  16. Stefan

    Stefan Senior Member

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    No problem. Glad I could help.
     
  17. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    Why upside down? I've been using the rubber and on top of it that slip mat with the Pioneer logo. Sometimes I use only that and take the rubber off.
     
  18. Johnny Wong

    Johnny Wong Ya der hey.

    Location:
    Wauwatosa, WI USA

    I have found doubling the anti skate as suggested above works perfectly. I’m no longer having any crash landings when cueing up the beginning of an LP. This is great advice...
     
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  19. Johnny Wong

    Johnny Wong Ya der hey.

    Location:
    Wauwatosa, WI USA
    I have a question regarding the aux arm weight.

    I’m running a 2m Blue with Ortofon Sh-4 headshell. I read somewhere that by installing the aux weight that you can reduce arm vibration? I was able to install this and reset the VTF at 1.8g. I feel that the clarity of the cart improved... anyone else try this?

    Right now I’m using the stock slip mat under the upside down stock rubber mat with VTA at 0. (I’m waiting on a Funk Firm Achromat 1200)
     
  20. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    I've never used the aux arm weight. Manual recommends it to cartridges over 9.5g, I don't have any.

    Why are people using the stock rubber upside down? I asked this three posts above but no answer.

    By the way, does anyone have a tracking force gauge and can confirm if the marks on the counterweight are accurate?
     
  21. Mrtn77

    Mrtn77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris
    The marked part of the counterweight is meant to be moved and does. If you're worried about accuracy, you owe it to yourself to purchase a gauge. The Chinese ones offered on Amazon are cheap and do the job perfectly well.
     
    punkmusick likes this.
  22. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    Sorry, I didn't understand this. Of course they move so we can adjust VTF. My question is this: if we adjust it using the marks then check with a gauge, do we conclude that the marks are good enough for an accurate set?

    Yes but I wonder if someone had already done that and that's why I asked. If someone already did it, and found out that the marks are accurate, then I don't need a gauge. I'll wait to see if I can get any answer on that.
     
  23. Johnny Wong

    Johnny Wong Ya der hey.

    Location:
    Wauwatosa, WI USA
    The notches will get you in the ballpark, but I feel that a scale is indispensable.
     
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  24. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    Also, why the rubber mat upside down?
     
  25. Mrtn77

    Mrtn77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris
    The marks, in and of themselves, cannot be perfectly accurate given how loosely they move.
    Think about it : they're made to move with the weight and without the weight. It is very easy to make a move you hadn't planned.
    The marks can only be as accurate as your own movements. How sure of them are you ?
    If you're worried about accuracy, you do need a gauge, end of story.
     
    punkmusick likes this.
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