Questions re Pioneer PLX-1000 set-up

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Nubben, Feb 3, 2016.

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  1. Mrtn77

    Mrtn77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris
    Alas, I never managed to print them at the correct size to begin with ! (And not from a lack of trying !)
     
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  2. 33na3rd

    33na3rd Forum Resident

    Location:
    SW Washington, USA
    A quick web search shows that the the DL-103 does indeed stick out past the front Jelco headshells when using Baerwald, but most looked like 1/3 or less. More or less........
     
  3. Stefan

    Stefan Senior Member

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    For those with a PLX-1000 and who don't have one of the headshells with longer slots, I recommend you simply go for the 54mm alignment described in this thread (carefully measure 54mm from the back of the headshell washer to the stylus point) and with the cantilever (not the cartridge sides necessarily but the cantilever) centered between and parallel to the sides of the headshell.

    This results in the classic Technics alignment (15mm overhang, 22°offset), which is very close to a Stevenson but not exactly the same. The difference between this alignment and a Baerwald is really not as audible as some might think. If you properly align to this, the maximum angular distortion is still less than 1%. that's less than if you have try to align to a Baerwald but get the angle off by just 1 degree or the overhang off by 1mm (both can easily happen).

    I just took delivery of a new Jico boron-cantilever SAS for the V15VxMR, which I've tried on my Shure M97x and a Shure M35X (with custom Paradox-Pulse aluminum body). The M97x was aligned to Baerwald on a Zupreme headshell and the M35X is on a typical Technics headshell. The same stylus on both sounds equally accurate with the only difference being due to the electrical differences between the cartridge bodies (on the M35X, it's about 2dB bright around 14kHz.
     
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  4. Stefan

    Stefan Senior Member

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    I used to struggle with arc protractors too but then I discovered that you really don't need to have anything pointing to the arm pivot point as a lot of them suggest. that was a big breakthrough for me. All you have to do is the following:

    1. Find something to keep your platter from turning (I insert a small piece of rubber scrap between the edge of my platter and the plinth. It's perfect.
    2. Make sure your antiskate is turned completely to zero.
    3. Move the protractor until the tip of your stylus touches it near the outside of the platter. Then find something to keep the protractor from moving (I use my center weight)
    4. Move the stylus towards the center spindle and see if it touches the arc there. If not and it's on the arm pivot side (too short), the cartridge needs to move forward in the headshell). If it's too far, it needs to move back slightly. The distance to move the cartridge is about half of the distance the stylus was from the arc.
    5. Once the stylus touches the arc at both the outer and inner spots you have your overhang set, now it's a matter of getting the cantilever angle the same as the lines in the grid. Be carefully to turn the cartridge without changing the overhang distance.
    6. Once you have the angle right, go back and recheck to make sure the stylus still touches the arc at both extremes.
    7. Reset your antiskate. Double check your VTA, VTF, etc.
    As posted earlier in this thread, here's my Baeerwald arc protractor: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5dnk6qfnv1sefj6/Baerwald IEC for SL-1200 PLX-1000 etc.pdf?dl=1

    It take a little bit of practice the first few times, but before you know it, this is something you can do in just a couple of minutes. I know that sounds optimistic, but once you know the routine, it really doesn't take long. I find that using a magnifier app with light on my smart phone is really great. I used to use a jeweller's loupe I found on ebay but it distorts the angles and makes it difficult to determine if the cantilever angle is correct. the phone app is wonderful for this.
     
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  5. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    This is absolutely correct folks.

    One can get fairly close Baerwald (and close is good enough for some o_O) with many cartridge/headshell combinations. However, to get true Baerwald with the PLX, even with an aftermarket headshell, most cartridges will come close to maxing out the available length.

    I discovered this through meticulous use of a DB systems Baerwald protractor, which allows for alignment to within 1/4 of one degree.

    I did manage to achieve Baerwald with my Soundsmith cart and an HS-4 headshell, but throughout my careful listening tests, it sounded no better than Stevenson.

    If I still owned this table, I'd be using the Stevenson Arc protractor (set to DIN) from the Conrad Hoffman software. I've had very good results with this alignment on multiple tables.

    You can download it here:
    Conrad's Free Stuff

    You simply set the cartridge to follow the arc and align with at least one of the grids.

    Otherwise, your best bet is just setting the 54mm distance. You can buy some inexpensive calipers for this.
     
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  6. rtrt

    rtrt Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Can you suggest some callipers pls. See you're US based and I'm UK but I'm sure I can track something similar down.
     
  7. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
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  8. 33na3rd

    33na3rd Forum Resident

    Location:
    SW Washington, USA
    I will have to try this again when time permits. I do appreciate the time and effort that you put into the directions!
    I have a few alignment tools in the closet, but usually default to my old plastic Dennesen Soundtractor. For arms like that on the PLX-1000, it's just too easy to use Dennesen instead of something else. It's not as easy to use the Dennesen with a Rega arm as the center pivot point is not so clearly observed from the top of the arm.

    I've been using gaffer's tape to immobilize the platter. Gaffer's tape really comes in handy in the stereo room.

    Here's a link to an image of the Dennesen. This is not my image.

    Dennesen Soundtractor - Vinyl Engine
     
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  9. rtrt

    rtrt Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
  10. Leviathan

    Leviathan Forum Resident

    Location:
    461 Ocean Blvd.
    So, if I do this I wouldn’t have to bother with any of the protractor or alignment tool, correct? (Assuming the tone arm is the correct height)
     
  11. Stefan

    Stefan Senior Member

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    That's right.
     
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  12. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Sold mine while they were unavailable new. The Polaris protractor does a similar job but is easier to use and a lot cheaper. Alignment with this exactly agrees with the Pioneer 54mm headshell position.

    Russ Andrews - Hi-Fi mains and cable specialist
     
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  13. Mrtn77

    Mrtn77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris
    I may be missing something, but I don't see how one sight-line protractor would be any easier to use than other.
     
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  14. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    Regarding the PLX-1000 anti-skate.

    This video was referred in another thread:



    At around 20:50 the guy checks the anti-skating system of the deck he is reviewing. The test shows the anti-skate appears to apply no force to the tonearm until it reaches 1.0. Then it stops again until 2.9.

    Then he tries a SL-1200 MK2 and it starts to apply force at 0.7, a bit more at 0.8, then again 0.9, and at 1.0 it applies enough force to push the arm smoothly to the resting position.

    I did the same to the PLX-1000 and found out it doesn't work like any one of these tested decks.

    The PLX-1000 anti-skate appears to apply no force until 1.0 like in the AT120, but from 1.0 on it smoothly increases in what seems to be an infinite move. Interestingly enough, the anti-skate mechanism has no marks from 0 to 1.0 and the space between 0 and 1.0 is clearly bigger than when it has marks, i.e., from 1.0 to 2.0, or 2.0 to 3.0 etc. So it seems like from 0 to 1.0 it doesn't work because it's not supposed to. It starts at 1.0 and from then on it works properly. Table is leveled.

    When it reaches 1.5 it seems to be the best adjustment for my 1.5g set 2M Black. 3.0 seems to be too much so I'm not confident that to double the force would be the best as stated earlier in this and in the other big PLX-1000 thread.

    Moreover, when I put anti-skate back to zero to balance the arm and set VTF, it seems like it has a "click" to reach zero. If you rotate it back to zero, you need to rotate it a bit further from where it appears to stop. If you don't, a minimal anti-skate force is still applied. There's more space to rotate it, do it, feel a very subtle "click" and then it's at zero.

    Did any of you try the same?
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
  15. bru87tr

    bru87tr 80’s rule

    Location:
    MA
    I had the Pioneer with loose tonearm bearings, it was very bad as I have mentioned and returned it.

    My Audio Technica 1240 toneatm was getting loose after 3 years of gentle use. It had a little play new, but not bad, over time it has got worse.

    I decided to try and adjust it, tried to loosen the screw but never was successful as there was a lot of glue. I have a Technics GR on the way and decided what the heck. Man, I was gentle but a little hack trying to get the glue out and loosen the screw. Was just about to give up and finally it broke loose. Glad I didnt try this on the Pioneer 1000.

    It seems from the factory it was not perfect as I went through carefully adjusting. When I played a record before, if someone walked by you could hear the tonearm chatter and it would skip if someone walked to hard.

    I now have it adjust were the chatter is gone and I cant make the record skip now banging the floor and jumping. Before it was so sensistve and easily skipped cause of the loose tonearm.

    A word of advice, as I was a little off on my adjustment and had to redo my adjustment. Start over and balance the tonearm after you feel you got it right. Make sure the tonearm balances right before tightening down. My record played, but I knew something was off. Antiskate was a tad off no matter what I did. Balanced after adjusting and before locking it down. Making sure the balance and antiskate was right.

    Works perfect now. No chatter and no skips from vibration. The hardest part was getting the glue to break loose on the screw. The adjustment itself was not that hard at all.
     
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