R-2R Ladder DACs (in production 2015)

Interesting. What is your rationale?

My thinking is that if there is no SACD transport, then what's the point? Invest that money into improving the "digital transport" or move up to the next DAC.

 

You have a good point, without having DSD (at least I think that's the point you're driving at?), a transport doesn't make a lot of sense if it's just going to be CD-based. However, having a decent transport would have saved me about 5 days of troubleshooting to figure out I had my PC set up incorrectly so if nothing else, it would at least be a point of reference in case I made changes to the PC. With that said, the difference is/was obvious.

 

Advances in digital transports have heated up. We could definitely have a thread devoted to that topic. I'm interested in products from Antipodes and Aurender where the storage is integrated. Prices are going to need to come down, so hopefully competition will do it. I'll also be hoping for performance advances to the point where virtually no one disputes that physical transports are better.

Again, the last concern seems likely to be SACDs. If we can't get the DSD ripped and the market for SACD transports shrinks, then that will stink. Most of my SACDs are hybrid and have the same mastering work on the PCM layer, so that could be a temporary work-around. I'd rather have the hi-res of course. I also have some single layer SACDs and a few hybrids where the PCM layer is inferior mastering.

Finally, I'll add my two cents on the digital front end and sound quality in general. Loudspeakers of the highest resolution will be required in order to appreciate what the top DACs and related transports (digital or physical) are capable of. This assumes that the amplification isn't a barrier. I personally wouldn't bother pouring money into front end gear and all the associated tweaks without fairly serious speakers, proper positioning in the room, and acoustic treatment. Those whose systems have a shortcoming will be left wondering what all the fuss is about.

 

Thanks for starting this thread jh...

Yes, La Scala like La Voce is fully modular and are both designed to receive upgraded boards and/or inputs, etc (the dacs will never become obsolete as technology advances). Both units are currently in mkII status. The cd-transport you mentioned is called La Diva and is very unique with a customized Phillips CD PRO-2 manual loading disc tray (attention to detail is extraordinary). Whats more, it is designed to interface with both La Scala/La Voce with a proprietary I2S protocol via an Rj45 (Ethernet) connection. If you have a well recorded cd with top notch equipment/speakers, it is absolutely breathtaking - at the very pinnacle of digital playback.

Both La Voce/La Diva will be on display at the Capital Audio Fest later this month (August 28-30) in Rockville, MD. Please contact [email protected] for more information and/or questions regarding the aqua line.

 

Metrum Acoustics Pavane
Netherlands
- Proprietary D/A conversion chips
- OEM M2Tech XMOS USB3 module accommodates up to 384kHz
- 24-bit data split up (by FPGA) over two DAC clusters




The Pavane supersedes the Hex, which was well regarded. I suppose the Pavane would be my choice if I had to blind buy an R-2R. It is not a purists R-2R though. Would be interesting to compare with the CAD, for example.

 

Don't the French make any laddeur dacs? I am shure they would sound tres dinamique.

 

You should send them a courriel suggesting this!

 

Anyone on the forum have experience with Hex or Pavane from Metrum Acoustics!?

 

I'm going to have to hunt down some members who never post! Surely, we've got a few who've scratched well beyond the surface within the hi-end DAC market.

 

MSB Technology DAC V
USA



The DAC V line includes Diamond and Signature variants. Note that the flagship is actually Select DAC. All 3 are cost-no-object and there seem to be endless options. Way out of my league to try to put into perspective.

 

These all look horrendously expensive. Can you please post prices as well, just for value comparisons.

 

The intent of the thread is to generate interest in R-2R DACs and, more generally, in today's digital overall. Money matters will only distract. Suffice it to say that some are affordable as hi-end goes and others require a blank check.

 

Here is a nice NOS dac. Vertex Aletheia:
http://vertexaq.com/aletheia-dac-1-0/

Unfortunatelly, I cannot find a photo of the inside, but here is a Hifi Critic review:
http://vertexaq.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Vertex-1.pdf

Martin Colloms seems to like it, as he gave it a rating second only to the top Audio Note dac:
http://www.hificritic.com/digital-audio.html

 

I know the MSB DACs do DSD; are you sure they are ladder-type DACs?

 

Vertex AQ Aletheia DAC-1 utilizing the Philips TDA1543 16-bit chip with no oversampling, no software or hardware noise shaping or filtering. Ok, so there is another!

Yes

And yes

 

So they must convert DSD to PCM?

 

I don't believe so. I can't claim to even begin to figure out all of things that the MSB does differently from the most basic R-2R DAC. A straightforward R-2R DAC with an off-the-shelf chip will only handle PCM, so software will be needed to convert DSD to PCM.

MSB has developed proprietary D-to-A. I was hoping this thread would attract some serious DAC geeks. Maybe they are lining up to strike all at once!

 

Really?.. As per the URL you included:

 

I don't know if the mapping (your bold) is the equivalent of converting DSD to PCM. My impression is that the conversion is native, but since the MSB is among the world's most complex consumer DACs, then we'd need a subject matter expert to elaborate.

 

MSB's $90K Select DAC:

 

^^^ Native? IMO, not likely... DSD is a 1-bit SDM audio stream which usually would need to be converted (i.e. integrated & filtered in digital domain) before being passed to MSB ladder DAC running at 24-bit / 1.4 MHz res (LPCM?).

 

Phasure NOS1
Netherlands
- NOS, obviously
- Reminder: 1704U-K (8)
- XXHighEnd optional software (Intended to optimize Windows OS for best performance and so much more)



This unit is for very serious computer savvy audiophiles. Potentially quite rewarding for those willing and able to put the time into it.

 

Schiit Audio Yggdrasil
USA
- Forum thread link
- Analog Devices SHARC DSP (this R-2R DAC is not NOS)




The Yggy must be the most well-known resistor ladder DAC among audiophiles in the States. Hopefully, experiences with this unit will increase demand for other R-2R DACs and, more broadly, well designed hi-end DACs in general.

 

I have owned several R2R DACs over the years. There are quite a few "budget" ones that are worthwhile, including the Audio GD Master 7 and the Audio GD NOS17o4. The various R2R MHDT DACs are also good, if you're into an integrated tube buffer, but they're not as good as the Audio GD DACs, which stand as the best sub-Yggdrasil-priced R2R DACs that are readily available. (Used Audio GD units sometimes appear on EBay and, more often, in the Head-Fi source components classified board. While they hold their value well, they can usually be had at a decent discount used.)

While this view might be controversial, I've found than sub-$1k R2R DACs, like the NOS1704, have bested $2 or $3k Delta Sigma DACs in head-to-head A/B comparisons.

 

FWIW, I also had the Metrum Octave MKII and preferred the Audio GD DACs. Perhaps the Hex is better, but I've read comparisons that suggested the step up from the Octave MKII to the Hex was very small.