Rare Lennon interview who wrote what ? Lennon and McCartney

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by helter, Aug 26, 2014.

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  1. theMess

    theMess Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    We do have the answer to Yoko's question; on the one album Paul released that had Beatles songs on it in the 1970's, Wings Over America, Paul did have the credits changed, and neither John, Yoko or the record company complained about it or even mentioned it.
     
  2. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    Do you have the reissue to check? I don't, but according to wiki, it appears that it is STILL listed as McCartney-Lennon for the 5 Beatle songs on Wings Over America.

    If so, well, there's the answer!
     
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  3. theMess

    theMess Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    I think that the following quote from Paul explains things nicely:

    “I wanted it to be ‘McCartney-Lennon,’ but John had the stronger personality, and I think he fixed things with Brian before I got there,” McCartney recalled in “The Beatles Anthology” book. “I remember going to a meeting and being told: ‘We think you should credit the songs to “Lennon-McCartney.”‘ … I had to say, ‘Oh, all right, sod it!’ — although we agreed that if we ever wanted it could be changed around to make me equal.”

    The Wings Over America release gives credence to what Paul said, and Salon summed it up well:

    ''Ono has conveniently forgotten that McCartney made a similar credit switch in 1976, when he included five Beatles songs on his live record, “Wings Over America.” Lennon was very much alive at the time, and neither he nor Yoko voiced a word of disapproval about it. If Lennon didn’t object to the reversed billing at that time, why does Shukat find the same action “absolutely inappropriate” now?''

    Here is Salon referring to Shotton's comments on Eleanor Rigby:

    ''And while Lennon claimed to have written the majority of the lyrics, Lennon’s own friend Pete Shotton recalled that “‘Eleanor Rigby’ was one Lennon-McCartney classic in which John’s contribution was virtually nil.''
     
  4. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Nobody noticed. As I said above, I think Paul just snuck it in because he's a sneaky guy, plus he controlled the album, the graphics, and everything else, and the record label just looked the other way. They weren't about to call up Yoko and go, "hey, Ms. Lennon! Is this OK?"
     
  5. theMess

    theMess Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    I think that someone must surely have noticed the famous name as having been switched, especially at the record company.
     
  6. Trixie Jones

    Trixie Jones Raining in my heart

    Location:
    L.A.
    I love Pete's book and I'd bet Pete's recollection is pretty accurate, BUT... if you read the passage in the book, he wasn't there for the entire creation of the song. That evening's songwriting session stands out in Pete's mind, I'm sure, because of his excitement at being able to watch all four Fabs collaborate and, naturally, because of his own participation in the process. The session ended before the song was actually finished, and Pete doesn't really elaborate on how much of the song was done or, indeed, how much of it had already been written before he joined in.

    So my point is that too much credence is being given to Pete's little anecdote. He doesn't tell us how the song was composed from beginning to end; rather, he focuses on just a part of one evening's session. From what he witnessed, John did not contribute anything... but what about after the session ended that night? Or in the studio? Pete was not witness to what happened after the session broke up, so his recollection is incomplete and cannot be relied upon as the whole story of the composition of Eleanor Rigby.
     
  7. theMess

    theMess Forum Resident

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    Either way, I think that it is safe to say that John did not write 70% of the lyrics at some later session.
     
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  8. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    He was the ultimate fanatic, bought two of everything.
     
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  9. Trixie Jones

    Trixie Jones Raining in my heart

    Location:
    L.A.
    Yes, I agree. Our John was no stranger to hyperbole. But neither is Paulie...
     
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  10. His Masters Vice

    His Masters Vice W.C. Fields Forever

    There's no law that says songwriters have to be credited in any particular order ... and it's not as if McCartney gets paid more if he's listed first ... so there is no reason why McCartney can't change the order when the songs are on his own album.
     
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  11. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    I can imagine Yoko running in while John was getting a massage'lookee ' he's swapped the songwriting credit on a few songs...' John ..yeah Yoko.:)
     
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  12. theMess

    theMess Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    It doesn't really matter, because as Paul said: ‘Oh, all right, sod it!’ — although we agreed that if we ever wanted it could be changed around to make me equal.”

    So either way, Paul is not breaking any laws by changing the names, he is allowed to change them, as has been proven with his live album releases. No one has ever sued, despite threatening to, because Paul is not doing anything that he is not allowed to.
     
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  13. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Was George or Ringo aware of what went down with tbe songwriting switcheroo..don't believe they've ever mentioned it ?
     
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  14. theMess

    theMess Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    I don't think that they ever mentioned it.
     
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  15. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Hmm.
     
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  16. vamborules

    vamborules Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT
    I don't think John would have had a problem with any of the Beatles songs on WOA being seen as McCartney songs. Didn't he say something about how his greatest fear was being wheeled onstage at 90 and given a plaque for Yesterday? Can't find the quote but it was something like that.

    Anyway, he would have been more than happy to distance himself from songs like The Long and Winding Road and Lady Madonna.
     
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  17. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    :D
     
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  18. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Not from McCartney's songs = Moolah' it brought in methinks. :)
     
  19. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    I don't see that it matters. They both seem to, at separate times, agree for most of the credits. Considering the volume of work they did and that many of those interviews took place anywhere from 10 years on up after the fact, and consdering the pace the band worked at, it is a miracle that they remember as much of it and agreed on as much of it as they do.
    One thing for certain, none of us know who wrote what other than what they have told us, and when they are mistaken none of us know who is the one who is mistaken and who is not.
     
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  20. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    It's a shame that we couldn't have them both sitting in the same room at the same time sitting and talking and reminiscing about working on all those great songs. Then, we could have the benefit of an interactive argument where one could say, "but I wrote this bit," and the other would say, "no, don't you remember? So-and-so came into the room and did this, and then I changed the line to that." Very sad that that day won't ever happen. It would've made a helluva film.

    I think the publisher can stipulate how the songwriters have to be credited by contract, but at the highest level of show business, rules on credits tend to get ephemeral. I suspect in the last 10-15 years, McCartney has been much more careful about picking and choosing arguments with Yoko, to avoid unnecessary disputes with her.
     
  21. helter

    helter Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    NJ
    From 2003 regarding Paul switching mccartney/lennon credits on his recent live album
    here is Ringo's opinion on the matter.

    In a recent interview with Rolling Stone magazine, Beatles drummer Ringo Starr stated that he believed McCartney should have consulted with Ono before making the switch. "He's wanted to do it for years," Starr said. "I'm not going to tell you his reasons--he'll tell you them. But I think the way he did it was underhanded. I thought he should have done it officially with Yoko. But he didn't. It was the wrong way to go about it."
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2014
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  22. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    I don't know , I would need to ponder that a bit. Even the best of friends might not get through that hour well. I can see there being a slight chance of it getting ugly over something trivial.
    One thing though, I think no matter how pissed they got at each other they still admired each others talent. And I don't think they really cared all that much who wrote what nearly as much as their fans seem to. They both always seemed to talk about it quite matter-of-factly in interviews.
    I also think both would be offended that there are some who use the debate as a means to take cheap shots at whichever Beatle isn't their favorite.
     
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  23. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    "It's because of you, you got the tambourine wrong, that my whole life is a mess!"

    :D
     
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  24. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    But' Macca would say its my frickin songs, sulk. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2014

  25. John acknowledged that he used it in the book prior to the song/movie title, but still credit's Ringo:

    "I was going home in the car and Dick Lester suggested the title, 'Hard Day's Night' from something Ringo had said. I had used it in In His Own Write, but it was an off-the-cuff remark by Ringo. You know, one of those malapropisms. A Ringo-ism, where he said it not to be funny... just said it. So Dick Lester said, 'We are going to use that title.'"

    Sheff, David (2000). All We Are Saying: The Last Major Interview with John Lennon and Yoko Ono. New York: St. Martin's Press. ISBN 0-312-25464-4.


    many thks for confirming !!

    ABOVE are quotes from muffmasterh
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Confirming -what?!?!
    You had said Ringo picked the title for AHDN
    I said John had wrote the phrase prior to that in his book.
    The above quote says "Dick Lester suggested the title"

    Perhaps all three facts are correct, but certainly NOT JUST your offered fact.

    Then again, maybe Macca's IPAD flashed him the lyric? No? LOL
     
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