Record Cleaning Machine - Did I Just Ruin My New Records?

I'm not Bill but I tried their Ultra Pure Water with the AIVS fluid and also distilled water and based on my experience, no bad will come. Distilled water works just as well. No difference in my book expect in cost.

 

Surely all this cleaning business is the cause of the problem I dont clean records except with a dry soft brush now and then. My records dont have ant issues with excessive hiss, pops or clicks. As already stated a few second hand records that have been clean are indeed noisy. Leave well alone. Its not worth gambling with a valuable and loved record collection IMO

 

My experience has been the same.

 

Probably fine. I don't think you have to go crazy on the water. Rushton Paul, who recently did an article on DIY ultrasonic, said he is getting water from Whole Foods (it comes from a machine operated by a third party) that goes through multiple filtering steps and costs pennies per gallon. You need to bring your own container. I may wind up using this for ultrasonic at some point rather than the fancy lab water, though, for me, I'm probably going to stick with lab water to mix fluids and for rinse. According to the preservation specialist at the LOC, quoted in the piece I linked to above, he didn't even think you needed to spend for distilled and could get away with D/I water.
PS: here's the link for the stuff I think Rush was recommending. You can select how many processing steps you want from the machine. I don't know that every Whole Foods has it--when I get back to Austin next, I'll go to the Mothership store and see what they have:
Our Purification Process – Fresh Pure »

According to Rush, he's paying .39 cents a gallon for the stuff.

 

I use the squeakycleanvinyl RCM as well and very happy with the results............I did upgrade it a little by replacing the spindle piece with a longer dowel and placing small 3 mm clear pads stuck to the supplied platter mat all around the very rim of the record and then also inside around the record label........the reasoning was that this way I would not be placing a perfectly clean side one on the platter mat that had debris on it from side two being directly on the record.......now when I flip it to clean side two, side one is resting on the pads, not the platter mat.........

My solution is a capful of L'Art Du Son (available online for about $40 a bottle of concentrate) placed into a spray bottle with distilled water...........my records are cleaned and vacuumed and then given a distilled water rinse and vacuumed again before being placed into MOFI sleeves.........my sound is dead quiet and the solution of L'Art Du Son does not contain any alcohol of any variety.........that cleaning solution is used primarily with the Loricraft RCM's with excellent results......

Just my two cents.......

 

I use a 16.5 with Disc Doctor, and the only times the record came out noisy was when I accidentally used too much DD, or let it revolve more than twice. I've found you really only need 3 or 4 drops unless the record is incredibly filthy.

 

I'd suggest trying that. When you mentioned using a fluid with "blue window cleaner" in it, that made me raise my eyebrows a bit.

 

In over 40 years of using vinyl i have never gone to such lengths to clean a record .
Your dedication is to be admired.
I am sorry thst you are not getting
Consistent results ,
I use a very basic approach,
I use the record clamp from a disco
Antistat
Then i apply a small amount of washing
Up liquid. This i apply with cotton wool
After wetting the record. I wash the record in a motion following the record grooves. During the process i keep
The record constantly ünder the tap
To rinse awsy any muck.
I wash both sides place on a towel
And wipe clean with a clean tea towel.
No static and silent ,
You could try on an old record .

 

Been meaning to ask, is a rinse cycle necessary? I bought my Record Doctor to streamline the process from my Spin Clean. But if I need to vacuum AND spin rinse, I've only added to the process.

 

Sometimes less is more. Simplification is key to solving math problems and probability, really no different in cleaning a record.

Here is what the problem isn't:
1) It is not static charge, in almost every case those ticks are not static. Static has a sharp attack, and will be at one pitch. Ticks caused by debris will produce different pitches and amplitude, and different attack rates, soft and hard. Static has never a "soft tick" if anyone's familiar, static sounds exactly like a loose spark plug wire.

2) It is almost never the distilled water you're using. In my opinion, not necessary to purchase expensive deionized water.

Common causes for noise that are self induced, bad practices:
1) The old fashioned record brush before play only pushes most of the debris around and around. Some debris sticks to the wand or brush, leading us to believe it is working. The record surface also appears clean, also leading us to believe it is clean. The reality, some of the particles are driven in deeper, where they are stubborn and will adhere to the groove wall.... even worse some not kicked aside as they would be near the surface, but ground in by the stylus. This causes cumulative groove damage with each play. The degradation may not be audible immediately, but will be audible after many plays.
2) The brush sideswipe maneuver is going against the groove, the particles disappear, but guess where they went?
3) The old fashioned record cleaning systems do not work. The fluid on the brush routine introduces "pure fluid" in a very dirty groove. Guess what happens to the fluid? (what happens when pure water runs through a ditch?) The now contaminated fluid can not be extracted completely by the cleaning wand. The particles partially dissolve, the fluid evaporates, the result is a hard concrete-like deposit on the groove walls... almost impossible to remove... think hard water deposits.
4) We are ourselves a major contamination source. Clothing, and hands shed lint and dander which attracts like a magnet to a statically charged record. A conscientious effort will go a long way, avoid the worst of clothing, flannel shirts, wool sweaters, and pets living in the music room. Just a reasonably clean environment helps keep your records clean.
5) Storage of records on an open shelf is an invitation to dust and airborne resins. (ie: natural plant resins, diesel emissions, cooking smoke, tobacco smoke) Keeping records in outer poly sleeves and inside a cabinet with doors will keep them far cleaner. Resins, (airborne smoke which is oily) just a tiny amount causes particles to stubbornly adhere to the groove walls.

Common sense practices for cleaner records (redundant remedies for what ails the record)
1) A record cleaning machine or spin clean to replace the old way of cleaning on a turntable.
2) Simplified work flow, less can be more, wash, rinse and dry (rinse is the final clean, most important)
3) Simplified play regimen:

Clean record stored in clean sleeve,
Play the record (no formality, just play the record)
Return clean record to clean sleeve.
(abandon the brush routine before play, a habit hard to break)

4) Generous fluid amounts produce better results. Don't be stingy on the fluid (ignore "not much needed" advice) Immersion in a fluid bath may be the most efficient and most complete cleaning method, and rinse in a clean bath or under filtered running tap. The rinse purges the groove of sticky surfactant residue. (soap residue the same as sticky resins from the air which cause particles to adhere stubbornly) Air dry may be better than towel dry. Beware of microfiber. Do not assume microfiber does not shed.. it does! I suggest a high quality thick bath towel of higher quality fabric, washed tumble dried , and shaken out like mad outdoors... far less shed but still may to some extent.
5) Rinse! If the stylus collects sludge and crud, this is a sign you have sticky residue in the groove, all the more reason to rinse.
6) Have a can of compressed air (Dust-it) for removal of surface particles (no brush.. get rid of it) however a few particles on the surface cause no harm
7) Wear low shed/ low static fabrics when playing records. It is amazing how much lint clothing sheds. Washing hands before playing records isn't inordinate IMO, we normally do so before dinner.
8) A clean stylus produces cleaner sound, particles do not adhere as easily to a clean stylus, tends to kick them aside.
9) no smoking in the boy's room.. er- music room!
10) It is of no consequence to have a beer or cocktail and enjoy

keep em spinning,
Steve VK

 

currently i'm using an Okki Nikki and it's pretty good it has a really good performance, quite better than my old Nitty Gritty

 

I have the same rcm. Get audio intelligent fluids. #15 cleaner followed by using their ultra pure water. Pop and click free listening. Their ultra pure is 50 times purer than distilled water. Your cleaning fluid and distilled water is the ptoblem.

Also get a separate suction wand for both the clean and rinse cycle and separate brushes for each also.

 

Ahoy:
I, too, have an Okki Nokki, and feel that it does a sterling job at coaxing either pristinely new vinyl or filthy swap meet acquisitions to an absolutely clean, dry and anti-static finish. Especially at the price point, after watching some insanely expensive RCM's do their thing.
I've been an avid forum follower for some years, noting the plethora of record cleaning regimens, the fluids used, and generally how vinyl-philes treat their discs.

A couple of observations:
1). people demonstrate they're willing to spend obscene amounts of money on very expensive hi-fi/stereo components, and then try to clean records on the cheap.

2). H20: Any reference to using tap water, distilled water or bottled water completely misses the point. Tap water, with few exceptions, is like using sewer water, minus (hopefully) the smell. The particulate count and dissolved or undissolved solids, not to mention minerals render tap water unsuitable for serious record cleaning. IF you need to verify this, look at the residue left in the bottom of your home humidifier, White, chalky deposits of calcium, lime and perhaps iron or other sundry detritus that is DEFINITELY record groove unfriendly. If you've ever tried to clean that crap out of your humidifier, you know how incredibly tenacious the stuff is. I live in a town that has a Culligan Water dealer, and the owner happily supplies me with a gallon of chemically pure De-ionized water whenever I ask. If you have no access to such an establishment, Pure De-I water is not that expensive. A gallon will clean a slew of records. Although I'm not a chemist, I've read that deionized water is a good solvent in it's own right.

3). After a lot of research, I settled on L'Art du Son cleaner, formulated by German chemist and audio afficionado Martina Schoener. It's very reasonably priced, and the concentrate yields a gallon (or 5 ltrs) of cleaning solution, and more importantly, cleans in just one step. I personally mix up 50ml at a time. That cleans 5-7 LPS, which is about my tolerance level for one cleaning session. It contains no alcohol, but is highly effective at dissolving almost ALL deposits (fingerprints and skin oil, mold release compound, pet dander, airborne particulates, acid rain deposits, etc.

4). I apply the L'Art du Son with a long neck squeeze bottle- probably 15-20 drops until the entire surface of the record is wet. A two minute soak, followed by a couple of revolutions in each direction with the supplied Okki Nokki boars hair cleaning brush applied will dislodge all but the MOST stubborn filth. Vacuum a full turn and the pickup tube will suck up all the water, crud and cleaning solution, leaving a clean and almost completely dry LP surface. I have a welding tank filled with nitrogen on hand and small blowgun tip to completely dry the surface, but it's not really necessary- air drying works fine, albeit a little slower. I had the tank in the garage already, so the only expense was buying a tankful of nitrogen (cheap).

5). I choose to zap both sides with a ZeroStat before inserting the clean disc into a MoFi sleeve, then insert the LP case into a high grade Japanese resealable sleeve. Job done.

This method is friendly to new and expensive MoFi or audiophile 180-200g records. There will be some, although minimal loose solid particles, and any remaining mold release compound will be removed. Even REALLY dirty swap shop finds will yield to this treatment.

Sorry audiodudes, but mention of the following words when referring to serious record cleaning sends chills up my spine:
Tap water, bottled water, sink rinses, paper towel drying, window cleaner spray, dishwashing liquid, Elmer's glue baths, hair dryers , etc, etc. You get the point.

One word on stylus cleaning. Check out the Onzow ZeroDust Stylus cleaner, available thru Amazon. Incredibly effective!!

Enjoy vinyl.......

 

The Okki Nokki supplied brush is goat hair, not boars hair. My bad.

 

I've never read anywhere in MoFi's liturature anything about cleaning their records before playing. If you buy records from second tier record plants you get what you pay for.

 

A MoFi LP is like any other manufactured item taking multiple steps to produce. Not economically practical to have a 'clean room' operation, so even their LP's, better than most, are contaminated with various and sundry foreign material (read dust and dirt). Looks clean, but on a microscopic level, where vinyl grooves exist, it's NOT. Plus it does have the ubiquitous mold release compound present. It can only help with a thorough clean/vacuum before the first play to yield the best listening experience.

 

I wrote to MFSL Customer Service a few years back asking about this, and they replied, “Thank you for your email. Yes, we do recommend that you clean your new vinyl. Although it is new, there may be traces of oil or residue left behind by the pressing stamper.”

 

I wouldn't be putting 15% blue window cleaner anywhere near a record, unless I was cleaning a window.

With all that stuff you are spraying on and off, you've introduced a whole bunch of variables...

Static usually comes from the environment - the room, not the record or sleeve. So treat the room accordingly.

Also 10 minutes to air dry isn't going to do a heck of a lot to moisture down in the grooves...use a soft cloth to dry.

 

I think the OP is doing too many things and using too many steps. There's no reason to use the compressed air for one thing.
My workflow is pretty simple. A new record gets a spin on my VPI 16.5 with the regular Mofi cleaning fluid using a designated Mofi brush. If the record is used, I use the Mofi deep cleaning fluid with a different designated Mofi brush first, followed by a cleaning with the other brush and regular cleaner. After a few records have been cleaned, I have a toothbrush that I use to get the dust off of the two Mofi brushes, and the vacuum arm on the VPI. I've never had this method make a record sound worse. Only better.

 

Add a Distilled / Clean Water rinse with a clean brush / tube. I find it makes a big difference.

Next step would be to try L'Art du Son.

I used Mofi fluids for years. But, I will never go back.

 

The regular Mofi fluid is a rinse. I also always use a clean brush.

 

if you are doing it right, LPs only require a single cleaning, will help even new records, will not damage, will not cause them to get noisy over time. many aren't doing it right obviously. Also note, cleaning an LP is not magic, it isn't going to save a trashed record, and it isn't gonna be a night and day difference (IMO) but it can definitely help records that need it.

 

I've run into problems with fluids more than anything else. I started with a Vinyl Styl cleaner (it's basically a spin clean) and the device is great, but the fluid is terrible. They claim you don't need to rinse, but even with a tank of pristine fluid, it'll leave a coat on the groove that comes off on your stylus.
I've switched to spin clean's fluid and that's much better so far.

 

I agree with others to properly wet clean even brand new records due to dust and dirt that sticks to the record, especially from paper sleeves. Using distilled/de-ionized water for rinsing helps and I also agree not to use tap water due to whatever elements it maybe included.

 

new okki nokki user myself, what is the danger in over-vacumming? I saw that line not to over vacumm in the owners manual but not sure I can make sense of why more is not better...or at least no harm?