Records that play inside to outer edge

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Wally Swift, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. Wally Swift

    Wally Swift Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Brooklyn New York
    Can old 12" records that play from the inner grooves to the outer grooves be played on an SL1200MKII? I realize that you need to determine the right stylus size but as far as actually playing them it should work, no?

  2. timztunz

    timztunz "A Dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

    Texas and Brasil
    They do whaaaaaaat? :yikes:
  3. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    East TN
    A 12" record which is cut inside start (yours are) can be played on any manual 12" turntable with the correct speed and a conical stylus. Yes, your SL-1200 Mk II is just fine to do this playback.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
    Wally Swift likes this.
  4. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    East TN
    You heard Wally Swift. The records he wants to play are started from the inside out. A common situation with broadcast transcription discs. This was often done on the second side so the sound quality would stay consistent and not jarring from side to side.
    Frederick Mars and timztunz like this.
  5. vinylguy4

    vinylguy4 Well-Known Member

    San Diego Area
    I have one, School of Fish - The Wrong Sampler on blue vinyl, plays from the inside out.
    Plays fine on a plx-1000.
  6. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Long Island, NY
    A conical stylus isn't necessary in particular but otherwise this is correct. Your 1200 will handle them just fine.
    RhodesSupremacy likes this.
  7. Jeff Kent

    Jeff Kent Forum Resident

    Mt. Kisco, NY
    This is the one I was thinking of too, I have a copy.
  8. eric lubow

    eric lubow Member

  9. Cool! Radio transcriptions. Pretty much any manual turntable can play them. These came in both 33 and 78 rpm, so your turntable must be capable of playing these speeds. Proper stylus is a 3 mil conical. Plying with a smaller than 2 mil stylus can damage the transcriptions as they are made of a softer material like lacquer and are not cut as deep as a regular groove. Some of these were vertically cut, like an Edison 'Diamond Disc' as opposed to the regular lateral cut. If vertically cut, you will have to wire a stereo cartridge out of phase for proper playback.

    Side "A" of Jack Black's "Lazaretto" LP plays from the inside out. No special stylus is needed. The hidden track under the label on Side "A" plays at 78 rpm in the normal outside in direction.
    Spsesq and McLover like this.
  10. If you're looking for an easily accessible LP that plays from the inside out (aka reverse groove), grab a copy of Jack White's most recent studio album, Lazaretto. Side A plays in that direction. The outer groove locks to avoid any cartridge disasters.

    If you're really daring with your needle their are songs that play under the label on both sides, one at 45 rpm and the other at 78.

    Edit: Oops! Looks like Automated beat me to it!
    Spsesq likes this.
  11. tumbleweed

    tumbleweed Raised on the radio

    Colorado foothills
    Riverside Records did a bunch of these in the '70s. I had one which was strictly race car sounds. Kinda silly, but a good conversation starter.

    Larry B.
  12. There's never such a thing as too much information. That's how we learn.;)
    McLover and Bill Why Man like this.
  13. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Drop Dead - 2nd self titled LP.
  14. Wally Swift

    Wally Swift Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Brooklyn New York
    Thanks for all the info everyone! I don't actually own records like this but I saw this mentioned in an ebay listing and it got me wondering.
    McLover likes this.
  15. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Center-start records go back a long time. The earliest Pathe "78s," from not long after the turn of the 20th c., were cut to play in that way. Quick way to tell if you have one: the center-start records had label information etched into the record surface; the later outside-start ones had conventional paper labels. Incidentally, I put "78s" in quotations because the etched label center-start Pathe discs ran at speeds between 90 and 100 RPM.
    Bill Why Man likes this.
  16. A couple of unusual records which play from the inside-out are from the 60's and both also require reverse rotation, which is not a problem for the AT-120LP turntable. First, the flip side of "They're Coming To Take Me Away Ha-Ha" by Napoleon XIV was the song recorded backwards. Putting the turntable in reverse, you can play the song from the inside-out, but you have to be careful that you lift the stylus at the outside of the record or you'll have a disaster. The second record is the flip side of the first pressing of Crazy Elephant's single "Gimme Gimme Good Lovin'" which is titled "Hips And Lips". Not only do you have to reverse turntable direction but you have to change the speed to 78 rpm. It is an instrumental version of part of the main song.
  17. riverrat

    riverrat Forum Resident

    I unwittingly bought a copy of this, not knowing that it was designed to play from the inside out. Took me awhile to figure out WTF was going on.

    I sent it back to the seller, who was gracious about accepting it. WAY too gimmicky for me. Maybe it wouldn't hurt my cart or tt arm, but I still found it super annoying. The locked groove at the outer edge would cause it to play a few notes over and over and over until I got over to the player to lift it off. Wonder how many sales Mr White lost because of this lame (IMO) idea.
  18. GMcGilli

    GMcGilli Well-Known Member

    Richmond BC Canada
    Cool - I'm going to order Lazaretto right now just to check this out.

    -180 gram vinyl.
    -2 vinyl-only hidden tracks hidden beneath the center labels.
    -1 hidden track plays at 78 RPM and 1 plays at 45 RPM, making this a 3-speed record.
    -Side A plays from the inside to the outside of the disc.
    -Dual-groove technology: plays an electric or acoustic intro for "Just One Drink" depending on where needle is dropped. The grooves meet for the body of the song.
    -Matte finish on Side B, giving the appearance of an un-played 78 RPM record.
    -Both sides end with locked grooves.
    -Vinyl pressed in seldom-used flat-edged format.
    -Dead wax area on Side A contains a hand-etched hologram by Tristan Duke of Infinity Light Science, the first of its kind on a vinyl record.
    -Absolutely zero compression used during recording, mixing and mastering.
    -Different running order from the CD/digital version.
    -Utilizes some mixes different from those used on CD/digital versions.

    THIS - is what I think should be done more often. Different mixes, orders etc. It's like when DVD came out - and all of a sudden you could have seamless branching to watch different cuts of movies. Someone's trash is my treasure indeed!
    eirismania and Bill Why Man like this.
  19. Jack White's Lazaretto debuted at #1 on the Billboard album charts, with 40,000 of its 138,000 copies sold in its first week on vinyl—a record since Nielsen SoundScan began its statistics in 1991. The 60,000+ vinyl copies sold in its initial run was the most since Pearl Jam's 1994 LP Vitalogy.

    It could have been the next Thriller had it been a normal record...

    There's nothing wrong with having a little fun with the format. It may have some gimmicks, but it also shows how much more interesting the format is as opposed to MP3, streaming, CD, etc.

    Part of the vinyl revival is due to the fact that the medium has so much more personality and versatility on a physical presentation level.

    Streaming, et al., doesn't compare aesthetically to colored vinyl, gatefold covers, liner notes on sleeves, etc. And what's wrong with a few gimmicks? I don't see any complaints on this site regarding the Sgt. Pepper's cut-outs, the Sticky Fingers zipper, the Physical Graffiti die-cut windows, added posters, deluxe box sets, etc. It shows imaginative creativity and a care to go beyond the norm to give a little extra to the fans.


    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
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  20. riverrat

    riverrat Forum Resident

    Well, to each their own I guess. I admit to being kind of curmudgeonly about this. I'm not a big fan of the Sticky Fingers zipper and the millions of scratches it has put in millions of records. (Have about 4 copies of the record though.) And I'd note that this and other add-ons you mention are packaging, not gimmicks applied to the record itself, or way the record plays. (I'm OK with colored vinyl although it can make it hard to assess condition of the lp.)

    Regarding box sets, I'm not a big fan of those either since the extras are (again IMO) generally just added fluff to jack the price up.

    I'm glad that Lazaretto sold well. I like Jack White's music, and his support for analog recording and vinyl. I probably don't represent a typical fan though, and therefore he doesn't really need to market with people like me in mind..
    GMcGilli likes this.
  21. crustycurmudgeon

    crustycurmudgeon Forum Resident

    Hollister, CA
    There's a pair of Phonogram various artists records that play inside-out. One is "Counterrevolutions in Rock" and the other "Counterrevolutions in R & B". Not too hard to find if anyone wants to search them out.
  22. Walter H

    Walter H Well-Known Member

    New Hampshire, USA
    Center-start records may not be playable by linear-tracking tonearms, depending on the arm design. It could also be tricky with an automatic or semi-automatic table.

    Also, I've seen the question of skating force raised when these records are discussed. Starting the cut inside or outside has no effect on skating or anti-skating.
  23. Bathory

    Bathory 30 yr Single Malt, not just for breakfast anymore

    a megadeth 12" in my collection does this.
  24. Damien DiAngelo

    Damien DiAngelo Forum Resident

    Michigan, USA
  25. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    East TN
    Another note RE: Broadcast Transcriptions. They need 2.5 mil styli for ideal playback (pre-Microgroove standard) and come in 12" size and 16" size, I'm equipped to play both sizes.

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