Reference 3A—opinions, impressions, dealings

So this designer is a stone's throw north of me, and I intend to do some listening. Veena BE being a possibility. Anyone have these or have opinions/info for me to run down? Other suggestions for coherent speakers in this range?

 

I have not heard the Veena BE but I have heard the MM DeCapo i using VTL MB125s/CJ PV12 and I have to tell you that they were simply amazing. They are very direct, musically involving, with good speed and resolution and highly listenable to the point where you forget hifi and just get lost in the music. Have never heard them with solid state but the general consensus is that they are best driven with tubes. There are plenty of glowing reviews out there so do tell us what you think after hearing them firsthand. I would definitely consider them when upgrading my speakers next.

 

Looking forward to hearing these designs.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/gma2/callisto_3.html

I note that this interview with Roy Johnson? finds some fault with the no crossover approach. I suppose my ears will have to be the judge.

 

You hit the nail on the head...... always trust your ears in the end. And don't forget system synergy-if you really like the demo then the next step is to make sure that it matches with the rest of your system.

 

If you have a chance to listen to the De Capo, you won't regret it. A good friend of mine uses them in his rig. Dynamic like hell. We had to play a bit with positioning but the reward was worth it. You can throw anything their way, jazz, acoustic, rock. Much, much, underrated brand or this model at least.

 

Thanks. I am building my list. Do you have a sense for how much space they need between the box and back wall?

Anything else you would flag? I am generally going to be looking for a two driver, first-older, phase coherent sort of design. I am used to living with an 8" mid/woofer, and need something that will disappear in the room and make that spooky magic.

 

The more they were away from the back wall, the better they sounded. We had to bring them back to about a foot and a half to make his wife happy. Also we found out that the Target stands he uses are not right for this speaker. In order to bring the tweeter to the right height, you most likely need the Reference 3A stands which can be adjusted. It looks a bit weird but will bring out the best from this speaker.

 

My front spikes sit at about 36" into the room, as it is—10ft to the sweet spot from either speaker. I must say the efficiency of the De Capo is impressive.

 

Love my mm de Capo i. I've been running them with 45 w/ch CJ tube power and the match is excellent as far as my ears are concerned. Incredibly "co-ordinated" speakers.

 

I haven't seen those stands, but I'd like to. Wonder how pricey they are?

Just had a look at them on the 3A site and I'll bet I could make a set. Hmmmm.....

 

There was a pair for sale on Canuck this week but it seems to be gone.

 

I have Reference 3A Episodes with the Murata super tweeter not the current B series. Nonetheless I don't think that the "house sound" has changed all that much based on what I heard at the TAVES audio show in 2013. They are very efficient, revealing, airy and image like crazy but do lack some low end thunder. The bass is there but it is very tight and taut which I like over boomy. Everything I've read suggest that they love tubes but mine sound great with my Simaudio SS amp. I started with the Da Capos which were magic. I only made the move to the Episodes because a great deal came along. Now I lust after the Grand Veenas. I highly suggest making a visit to Audio Eden in Markham as they have a few Reference 3a models on hand in their used/demo section. Google their website. Robert and Mike are fantastic to deal with and they have a lovely assortment of gear to demo with.

 

There is a post on AA about upgrading Ref 3A Master Control MMC to the Be tweeter

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/33/334525.html

 

Thanks, everyone who commented. I met Tash today, and listened to the Veena BE and Episode BE. These are really nice speakers that navigate the compromises of crossovers in a bold and successful way. I may ultimately need more bass extension than the Veena, although it did render some pipe organs and stand-up bass with confidence, but somewhat reduced scale. The Episode faired better, as expected, but may have suffered from some room issues. I think my space, and the height of the Episode would make a tenuous match. These are lively and engaging speakers, with custom drivers and smart execution with every detail of materials carefully considered.

Next up? Blueberry Hill Nocturne monitor? Lipinski L-707A? Hoyt-Bedford 1.5s? IDK

 

Thanks for the update. What is the price difference between the Episode and the Veena's? And what amp/pre was he driving them with during the demo? I am glad you were able to make it over there and demo these speakers. Hope Tash answered any questions you may have had. Have not heard of the blueberry or the hoyt but a buddy of mine owned the lipsinki's for awhile. They are have highly resolving speakers.

 

I believe the Veena's list around 3,200 US and the Episodes are closer to 6,000 US. He was using a Parasound solid state amp and a Chinese passive preamp, DIY wires. The turntable was not working. The passive preamp relied on the juice from the CD spinner, so it was interesting on some of the selections with very low bass (organ) that defined the loudest moments. On a speaker with less low-end extension, the music sounded really soft. He also had the speakers on massive granite platforms, which I have heard are bad about storing and releasing energy. Oddly, the Episodes had a suckout around 60Hz, which was either the room or those marble slabs. Who knows. I would like to hear the Veena's in my own space. Possibly I will.

 

Thats almost double the price for the Episodes. Are you planning to buy new or s/h? I have heard great things about the Grand Veena's and seen some decent deals s/h. Did you get a chance to hear them as well?
I am a bit surprised that he was using solid state with passive combo for the demo. Any ref3 demo I have ever heard has been with tubes. The best scenario as you said is to actually hear them in your room with your own equipment.

 

His cartridge was out for repair and he was interested in getting somewhere to watch football. Probably not the best audition. The right Veena BE has some issue with the IMD test. But really, as you say, in home is the deal.

Honestly, I am wrestling with the whole 30-day trial concept. I may narrow it down to three speaks and buy three just to have them side by side.

The older models don’t have the wave guide, and the Bybee has been dropped. The Episodes are just too tall, and would be firing into a lowish ceiling corner right above the listening position. No real reason to try the Grand Veenas, really. If they had a shorter speaker with an 8", wait, that's what I have now. lol.

I have a desire to hear some Dunlavy style monitors and maybe even a single driver like the Omega. It’s going to take me a while.

 

Well. a 30 day trial could be a good thing....at least it would give you a chance to hear it with your own system in your own room. I was going to suggest that you bring down your amp/pre but it sounds like his demo room/speaker set-up is very different than the acoustics you have in your own room, which would be less than ideal.
Buying three pairs of speaks at the same time? Sounds extreme but truly no better way to find out quickly which one you would like. Wishing you patience and perseverance......it will take some time, as you said. Good luck!

 

Thanks. Slow and steady.

 

What about the Zu Souls? Have you heard these? I personally haven't, but the concentric design seems to be in line with other speaker choices that we like so I would be open minded to these myself. Unfotunately the Decware forum is down right now as they are upgrading their servers, but there is a good user post where guy who owns both Omega RS7 Alnicos and and Zu Souls does a nice little comparison of the two. He kept both as they both had positives about them, but gave a slight nod to the Souls as his favorite between the two.

edit ... not to mention that at 99dB these things can be driven by pretty much anything.

 

I have old ref 3A master controls (likr the precursor to the MM da capo I think, but bigger, made in Switzerland or maybe it was france). It's a great speaker, it's probably a bit colored in some ways, probably on the warm side. As a 2-way monitor, they can play real bass, very dynamic, and pretty efficient.

ref 3a seems to have kept their design philosophy intact (hand made carbon fibre woofer, no crossover, etc), despite the change in location and I think ownership over the years. So I would think the newest models are similarly excellent, of course you should audition first.

 

My sense after listening is that you are right. It is a smart hybridization of the single driver concept, and the BE tweeters are A-OK with me. They would best my Vandys in detail and on many other fronts, but they would have to prove their ability to do bass in my room for me to go there. It may happen yet. They do consider every detail.

 

The master controls have the most bass from a 2-way monitor that I have heard in my system. I could live with them as a full range solution for most music. You will get more definition and control from floorstanders or 3-way designs though in my experience.

 

That is interesting. I may end up in the second hand market. I am pulling a wild card at the moment, having found a pair of speakers that were out for review that seem to meet every design criteria I could possibly want. We shall see how they sound.