Revisiting Duke - Genesis: It's actually good.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Eleventh Earl of Mar, May 4, 2016.

  1. bRETT

    bRETT Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I don't know, but it does sound like an actual jam-- compared to something like the "Cimena Show" instrumental which seems composed.
     
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  2. Tony's BOOMING synth washes on ATTWT are his peak for me - also the wonderful outro bit (that I allude to often) in "One For The Vine", and the incredibly moody/ethereal segues between verses in "Blood On The Rooftops"
     
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  3. Detroit Music Fan

    Detroit Music Fan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    I love Sussudio! It would have been a welcome addition to the Genesis catalog to me, but that's not where it ended up. Agreed on Phil's love (butchering) of Motown. I'm glad he never foisted that off onto Genesis. Those Motown covers are the only thing I really dislike about Phil, although I think he should get over being bitter about his career and some people's attitudes toward him.
     
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  4. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Pick up a fast car, burn my name in the road

    i didn't have a problem with phil's solo or genesis stuff. he's a talented guy. i just find some folks get bent out of shape if a song doesn't fit their criteria for a genesis song ... ya know? they could have recorded love me do, and if they made it interesting enough i wouldn't care.
    i think phil got over exposed to a degree in the eighties and some folks just had to cut him down for it.
     
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  5. CJBx7

    CJBx7 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Maryland USA
    What I mean is, much of it is not your usual "prog" style with odd-time signatures, lengthy solos, fantasy- and sci-fi-based lyrics (although "Dodo/Lurker" and "Keep It Dark" do fit those categories), but it is progressive in the sense that it's experimental and looking to go into new musical territory, thus, although much of it is not "prog" in style, it is progressive in the actual spirit of the word.
     
  6. MikeManaic61

    MikeManaic61 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    I can understand people's attitude over him (you know, 'This guy ruined Genesis thing'). But why would he be bitter about his career?
     
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  7. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Pick up a fast car, burn my name in the road

    phil didn't ruin genesis ... when bands lose a singer they change. the band changed
     
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  8. fans of Genesis and Smart Pop/Prog/Progressive (whatever you'd like to call their style of music) were clamoring for something
    that was both melodic and rocked in the late 1990's

    As listeners, we were browbeaten with grunge, post-grunge, and nu-metal.

    Instead, we got Calling All Stations.
     
  9. Detroit Music Fan

    Detroit Music Fan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    He's given a few high profile interviews in which he's very self pitying and bitter, at least until this last bit of touring. I'm glad he's out performing. I think it's good for him.
     
  10. MikeManaic61

    MikeManaic61 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    I didn't say Phil ruined Genesis, that's the consensus of what i've being hearing (fans of the PG era) after Peter Gabe left. That's my fault though i should've phrased that better.
     
  11. CJBx7

    CJBx7 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Maryland USA
    Probably because he was never very acclaimed by the critics. I understand that he would call and write letters to critics over negative reviews. They really got to him.
     
  12. gojikranz

    gojikranz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sacramento
    be sure not to listen to any live shows of theirs from the late 80s...
     
  13. overdrivethree

    overdrivethree Forum Resident

    Going by his memoirs, he was an often-absent dad who had the misfortune of sending a batch of divorce paperwork via fax, and the media got wind of it and made it "so-called nice guy heartlessly asks his wife for divorce via fax."

    I love Phil Collins - he was really big when I was a kid, and all those '80s Genesis/Phil songs were etched in my brain well before I ever knew Peter Gabriel ("Sledgehammer" guy) had been in the band. But Phil was definitely *everywhere* and his mastery of being all places at once bit him in the rear once the '90s got underway.
     
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  14. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Pick up a fast car, burn my name in the road

    sorry, misunderstood your comment. i just get tired of hearing that. how boring would genesis be if they had recorded lamb another eight times ... you know?
     
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  15. John Denver got similar treatment in the media.
     
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  16. Detroit Music Fan

    Detroit Music Fan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    Respectfully, I think you mistyped something here. As you said right before this, the Phil solo release NJR did sell twice as much as Invisible Touch. NJR sold 12 million copies and Invisible Touch sold half the amount, 6 million.

    And no, it does not "prove" focus, but I think I am making a good critical point that Phil was focused on his solo releases judging by the hits.

    Do You remember from But Seriously was released as a single, too, and it reached no. 4 on the Billboard charts.

    Again, I understand you believe Phil wasn't focused on his solo career. I see that he was.
     
  17. Detroit Music Fan

    Detroit Music Fan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    Ugh! I forgot about the Turn It On Again medley. Although, that's not strictly Motown, but the effect is the same, maybe worse.
     
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  18. bRETT

    bRETT Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston MA
    He was focused on everything he did, including outside productions. Even for its time, his ability to work so constantly at a high level was pretty remarkable.
     
  19. overdrivethree

    overdrivethree Forum Resident

    Between 1980 and 1984 alone, he:

    Wrote and recorded two solo albums. Toured one of them.
    Wrote "Against All Odds."
    Released Duke, Abacab, Three Sides Live and the self-titled with Genesis. Toured all of them (even Three Sides Live).
    Produced John Martyn.
    Produced Frida.
    Recorded/played with Robert Plant.
    Played with Eric Clapton (did he record with him?)

    Did I miss anything?
     
  20. bRETT

    bRETT Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Drums on "Do They Know It's Christmas," and of course playing both Live Aid shows.
     
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  21. He toured with Robert Plant too (on drums only). I caught one of their shows.
     
  22. overdrivethree

    overdrivethree Forum Resident

    The Frida album has its detractors, but finally hearing it (and watching the documentary about it) gave me a whole new respect for Phil Collins - he walked into a pretty awkward situation, with a shy divorcee pop singer stuck in the shadow of her composer ex-husband, and made a relatively aggressive rock album with her. And then straight back to Genesis, writing his own solo material, etc. without missing a beat.
     
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  23. overdrivethree

    overdrivethree Forum Resident

    Good catch, and that would have been '84.

    And didn't he just roll in, set up his kit, and nail it in like two takes, all while being filmed?

    It's almost like Phil Collins himself was like a TV show that starts off unassumingly, then immediately takes a turn and gets interesting real fast, and then builds in intensity until people start saying it's jumped the shark and stop watching it en masse.

    Basically Phil Collins is the Simpsons.
     
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  24. Rufus rag

    Rufus rag Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    But it was when they lost the guitarist that they changed!
     
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  25. Detroit Music Fan

    Detroit Music Fan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    He didn't just play with Clapton. He helped put a band together for Clapton. He produced or co-produced two of Clapton's solo albums. And he toured with Clapton for a few months during that year and a half. All told, if Phil wasn't with Genesis, he was recording and touring with Clapton during the second half of '86 and portions of '87. It wasn't '84, but it was still the '80s.
     
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