Ripping CD's - Is iTunes good enough?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by colby2415, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. Floyd47

    Floyd47 Active Member

    I've been using XLD on my Macbook for 5ish years now and like it a lot. I don't think EAC runs on OS X
  2. Bubbamike

    Bubbamike Forum Resident

    Like MP3tag it might with WINE but no, it won't without it. But dbPoweramp has a OSX version.
  3. erasmus

    erasmus Forum Resident

    Yes - you can use the somewhat difficult Cue Tools which can fix certain bad rips or use perfect tunes by the makers of dBpoweramp. Both are free.

    I found from using these that not all my old itune rips were accurate and had errors - some errors came from brand new discs.

    Not all errors are audible but if you want to know you have a perfect rip then either use something like EAC/XLD or dBpoweramp or rip with itunes and then check with one of the tools above.
  4. colby2415

    colby2415 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Thanks everyone for the input. I decided to go with the trial of dbpoweramp and so far its pretty great. I like how it finds the art and all that stuff automatically. Probably will end up purchasing after the trial. Great software and the accurate rip features are always nice to have.
  5. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Pleased that you're giving dBpoweramp ago, it's one of a very few pieces of software, that I haven't resented paying for! It really is incredibly powerful and flexible, but once you've got a naming string, that gives you the folder structure you want, and a few preferences set, in ripping options, it does the hard work for you.

    If you have any queries about the software, simply ask on the Illustrate forum, which is just as friendly and helpful as this one.

    With an AccurateRip, in a lossless format, with good tags (backed up!), you can easily convert to any format you may need in the future - safe in the knowledge, that your collection isn't full of errors.
    Sevoflurane likes this.
  6. Bubbamike

    Bubbamike Forum Resident

    Also with a good ripper like dbPoweramp the tags are embedded in the file and not in a database that is prone to corruption.
    Randoms likes this.
  7. Carl Swanson

    Carl Swanson Resident blabbermouth

    Cue Tools is horribly out of date with AccurateRip. Most of my checks show a vastly reduced number of AR matches on CT when compared to the actual dbPoweramp log on the day of ripping. Many show no matches at all when my log shows dozens.

    You may well ask, "Why are you checking CueTools if you already have a log?"

    Because in checking a couple of older rips, I began to notice a pattern which made me suspicious.

    EDIT: In other words, with CueTools, you will get enough "false negatives" vis-à-vis AccurateRip to make CT about half-useless for that function.
  8. Carl Swanson

    Carl Swanson Resident blabbermouth

    Randoms likes this.
  9. dBpoweramp is a very good ripping program for people like us with large collections of CDs to rip. dBpoweramp is also the company that developed AccurateRip.
    Sevoflurane and Randoms like this.
  10. False negatives are not a problem at all. If there is a match it will find it. It doesn't matter what the numbers are. Just as long as it finds a match. It doesn't matter if it finds a match with only 4 other rips or 204 other rips. Both are just as accurate and just as useful for verifying the rip.

    dBpoweramp and CueTools report AccurateRip numbers differently. And there is a difference between AccurateRip version 1 and AccurateRip version 2 in the way matches can be found and the number of matches to different pressings (offsets). CueTools also has a more challenging job in finding matches if it doesn't know the offset of the drive that originally ripped the files. That drive offset needs to be taken into account when finding matches. If it doesn't know the offset then it is going to find fewer matches.

    CueTools is working fine in my use of CueTools. It finds matches and is able to verify. I haven't noticed any problems or false negatives. CueTools also has the advantage of its own CTDB for verifying rips. CTDB often has more results in it for CDs, especially for newly released CDs, than AccurateRip. The addition of the CTDB actually makes CueTools/CueRipper and EAC with the CTDB plugin more useful for verifying rips than dBpoweramp alone.
    shaboo and Randoms like this.
  11. Carl Swanson

    Carl Swanson Resident blabbermouth

    They are when I have a fresh dbPoweramp log that says "accurate" with dozens of matches, and CueTools says either AR has "no matches" or "disc not present in database."

    EDIT: If CueTools' own database reports "accurately ripped", I'm satisfied . . . but their AccurateRip data is still wrong.
  12. I am certain that CueTools is doing the best that it can to find matches within the constraints of the AccurateRip algorithms and mathematics. CueTools isn't giving wrong results. It's working as designed. It cannot do a better job of matching than the mathematics allow and the data and information available.

    Trying to match the ripped files against AccurateRip is going to be less precise and more fuzzy than trying to match that same CD during ripping. The program doing the ripping has more information about the CD. Information like what the read offset of the drive is, what the CUE file is, what the gaps and pre-gaps are, whether there is an HTOA, and other info. When you just give CueTools a bunch of FLAC files with no CUE then it doesn't have that additional info that it can use to help better find AccurateRip matches. CueTools can get some of that info if you supply a log file. I don't know if it knows how to parse through a dBpoweramp log. It does know how to parse through EAC logs. If you supply CueTools with a verbose log and a CUE file you will have better luck with getting more matches.

    I'm amazed that CueTools is able to get any matches at all against AccurateRip if you just give it all the FLAC files from a ripped CD and no log or CUE. Be happy you're getting any matches at all.

    As an experiment you can try ripping a CD using EAC along with a log and CUE file. Then have CueTools analyze the rip and see how many matches it gets in AccurateRip. I think you'll find that CueTools is able to find more matches than it does with your dBpoweramp rips.
    shaboo and Randoms like this.
  13. Floyd47

    Floyd47 Active Member

    Is there a way to check the accuracy of a rip later on to make sure the files haven't been corrupted since the rip? Not sure if what I'm asking is possible. I rip using XLD so I have the Cue and Log files, so I know the files were accurately ripped originally, just trying to see if there is a way to check if the integrity of the files at a later date
  14. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Long Island, NY
    You can simply decode the files as normal in the FLAC CLI and if there are any errors, it will let you know. Or rather you can use -t which will do the same without writing a decoded file
  15. Sevoflurane

    Sevoflurane Forum Resident

    West Yorkshire
    Another method I have used is to use dBPoweramp batch converter to run a test conversion. This will highlight files that cannot be converted / have errors.
    Randoms likes this.
  16. Carl Swanson

    Carl Swanson Resident blabbermouth

    CueTools gives two sets of results. One from the CT database, and another that purports to be from the AR database . . . which always varies from AR's own results, often to the point of saying "no match", meaning zero.

    That is "wrong results", regardless how you parse it. If they do not have direct access to AR's database, they should not claim that they do.
  17. boiledbeans

    boiledbeans Forum Resident

    I've never used dBpoweramp, so I'm not sure how it reports the AR results.

    I use EAC & CueTools and I never have such problems. I suspect it's confusion between the AccurateRip V1 & V2 results.

    CUETools log - CUETools wiki

    A CueTools log AR example is
    [AccurateRip ID: 001a2e35-00e484f6-7d0f930b] found.
    Track   [  CRC   |   V2   ] Status
     01     [f95b16c0|d0f748ba] (10+02/34) Accurately ripped
    (10+02/34) = (V1+V2/Y)
    V1 = Number of matching ARv1 database records
    V2 = Number of matching ARv2 database records
    Y = Total database records under AccurateRip ID

    Maybe you could post the dBpoweramp and CueTools logs for us to look at, and we'll help you find the problem.
  18. Carl Swanson

    Carl Swanson Resident blabbermouth

    I don't have a problem; when dbPoweramp reports matches on AR, I don't go to CueTools at all.

    As I also said, if I do use CueTools, and their database says "accurately ripped", I'm OK with that, even if their AR figures are erroneous.
  19. head_unit

    head_unit Forum Resident

    Los Angeles CA USA
    Wow, so much back and forth. So let me jump in and ask what is the "Use Error Correction" setting in iTunes rip preferences doing? Isn't that verifying the rip? I assumed it was checking the checksums but correct me if not. I'd really like someone to explain what EAC is really technically doing differently from iTunes "Correction" because all I saw in the first pages of the thread were ranting and name calling and no solid technical information at all.

    I have a few terabytes ripped in iTunes, no glitches. Some very few unrippable discs, mostly due to abuse (like a Kanye West disc my nephew-in-law must have been trying to buff his car with or something-"Uncle, I tried to rip this but it won't work! :rolleyes: ). Tried different computers (i.e. different disc drives) and finally managed to rip it.
    --> how does EAC let you control the laser angle? Isn't that physically set by the mechanism?

    I do like and use XLD, but found iTunes "eat it, rip it, spit it back out, and it's already in your library" way too convenient to keep messing with other stuff. Now, eventually I found iTunes too inconvenient for actually playing stuff, but that's a different story.
  20. Tim Müller

    Tim Müller Forum Resident

  21. CueTools as access to the real AccurateRip database. The same AccurateRip database that dBpoweramp, EAC, XLD, and other rippers that support AccurateRip have access to.

    You can verify by taking one of the CDs that CueTools finds no match for and ripping that CD using CUERipper. CUERipper will now find it in AccurateRip. Now run that rip and CUE file through CUETools and CUETools will now find a match in AccurateRip. The problem is likely your original rip and trying to do a lookup in the AccurateRip database using those files. Something as minor as having a few hundred samples cut off from the end of the last file on the CD can be enough to cause CUETools to not be able to find a match in AccurateRip.

    I've run 100's of previously ripped albums through CUETools in order to check for HDCD encoding. I don't run into the problems with lookups that you have.
    shaboo, boiledbeans and Randoms like this.
  22. Carl Swanson

    Carl Swanson Resident blabbermouth

    Then it should display the same results. It does not.
  23. boiledbeans

    boiledbeans Forum Resident

    Yes, this is very true. I used to have this problem for CDs with a pregap of 00:00:32 (less than a second).
    If you rip as tracks (not image), and attempt to verify the rip using those tracks, it won't be able to find a match because that pregap is missing. But if you ripped as tracks with a cuesheet and use the cuesheet to verify, everything will be alright.

    Now I rip everything as an image+cuesheet, so I have no such problems now.
  24. boiledbeans

    boiledbeans Forum Resident

    As mentioned earlier, please post the two logs showing different results. Then we'll be able to find out why it's not displaying the same results.
  25. seed_drill

    seed_drill Forum Resident

    Tryon, NC, USA
    I've had issues, but don't know if it's due to iTunes or my CD drive not being able to track certain things, like discs with pinholes or the last track on a disc pushing the limits of the format.

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