Ripping to Separate Libraries or Folders, anyone?

It's my hope your persepectives can help me finalize my own library organization structure. So...do ya?

Beyond just keeping the Mp3's, FLACs and WAV's in separate folders, do your own personal listening or streaming needs lead you to do anything tricky with that great big "everything" server? And, are we talking separate folders and sub-folders and sub-sub folders and the like?

Do you have a library of stuff you're keeping separate because you don't intend them to shuffle-play with everything else ever, such as your comedy albums (or, "semi-ever", such as your Christmas records)? Or, are those just in different folders and sub-folders and sub-sub-folders as well? Do you keep your hi-res apart from your 44.1's? Or your surround tracks? Or your original albums from your special editions from your Diament remasters, or the copies of the same songs in your albums, singles, comps and box sets (or, even the least-desirable copies of a song even though you have 8 of them, just because once you start ripping, you couldn't just NOT rip them, could you...?)?

Are your tracks separated by artist, album, genre and the like, or do they reside in one big honkin' folder so they can intermingle randomly with the rest of the GenPop in your collection (kind like a buttload of Beatles threads in an otherwise-manageable forum of music topics, for instance )?

So basically, is anybody here doing anything with their NAS filing structure that they think is different from everybody else...and do you really understand why...and, how's that workin' out for ya?

 

Big honkin' folder. If a Xmas song or old syrupy melody comes on my random shuffler I just click to the next song.

 

My first question is why have separate MP3, FLAC, and WAV?

If FLAC and WAV are both containers for lossless PCM, that seems redundant.
Plus a lossy collection?

I used to keep a separate MP3 folder more than a decade ago but haven't in what seems like forever. I use JRiver to stream across the internet and it encodes to MP3 on the fly. Same with loading my wife's iPod, converts them on the fly. MP3s should be able to be deleted in this day and age.

Basically Music\Artist\Album\Files works for me with one copy of PCM per album.

For archival purposes I keep ISOs and DSF stored in a separate folder structure.

 

I have one master 2TB drive with about 2,000 albums in AIFF format. All are redbook or hi-res. Sorted alphabetically by album artist, including discrete folders for compilations and soundtracks. This drive includes all the multiple masterings. I keep this in a fire-resistant safe in my home.
I have two working drives for my two main systems, with about 1,500 albums that I might ever listen to, with my favorite mastering (or two on certain albums). I have another folder on my computer with about 250 albums downsampled to 320 kbps/AAC for sync'ing with my 32GB portable music player (a repurposed iPhone 4S).

 

It doesn't matter to me. As long as I have JRiver scan the folder for changes, they get entered in the pick menus. I generally have folders for each album within artist folders. And then I have these organized with the file format folder. The structure is there to avoid duplicates. I could throw all of the files into a one huge folder and JRiver would still sort it out. So, the folder structure is strictly for file maintenance. High Resolution files are tagged with the bit rate. I don't delete flac files because the are useful for travel, but I have JRiver ignore those files if I have a higher resolution file I prefer.

WAV is not a container. It's the actual uncompressed audio file. FLAC is a container, it contains the compressed WAV and has additional features that support artwork and tags. WAV is a very primative file, with only basic tagging. Why would you have separate files? I can't speak to redundancy as it isn't necessary. But having a separate folder for WAV vs FLAC makes sense to me. I download files that are uncompressed that come with vinyl purchases. These WAV files need to be tagged and probably compressed. In short, the WAV folder is a Work in Progress space. I generally don't point JRiver to this folder, so untagged files are seen on the interface.

 

I have two types of digital files on my servers: 320MP3 (basically all of my songs) and DSD (stereo and multichannel songs ripped from SACD). They are kept in two separate folders.

Within each of those folders are folders representing groups / artists. Within those group / artist folders are album folders. (And box set folders). There is a "compilations" folder wherein additional albums are kept. I don't collect individual songs / tracks / singles. Albums / EPs only. Sorting is done alphabetically within each folder, except when you get down to album contents then the music files are in track order. (I've adapted / refined my own "rules" for how to sort them alphabetically / name them. Simplest rule - as an example: "The Band" folder is called "Band, The" - for the obvious reason.)

(To cut down on scrolling / access time, at the highest level within each MP3 folders, there are sixteen alphabetic folders, like "A" and "B" and "Q-R" with a roughly equal number of artist/group folders in each. I use Sony UBP-X800s as streaming devices within my home.)

Most of the 320MP3 files have full metadata, including album cover. The DSD files do not.

Therefore I don't keep separate scans of the album covers, booklets etc. for the 320MP3. I do for the SACDs.

I keep an Excel spreadsheet / database of the entire collection, including non-digital formats as well. A given artist / album might be available in more than one format and database tracks that: everything from vinyl, to cassette, to CD, to SACD, to DVD-A, to Blu-ray Audio, etc.). Regardless, at least one version of every album is available in one, or both, of those server 320MP3/DSD folders, for streaming.

Jeff

 

Wav (and aiff) is most certainly a container - container most often for uncompressed PCM.

 

I have all my files in FLAC format on a 2TB drive, divided into classical, jazz and popular folders. My favourites are copied onto 128GB USB drives for listening while at my MacBook Pro, played through Colibri. Any necessary tagging is done on Music Tag Editor.

 

Great feedback! For those who asked, I know I'm going to need Mp3 for some devices; even if I don't play them off the server, why would it not be the most sensible thing to keep them on the server with the other media. Same thought process for the WAV. Otherwise, ripping most of my stuff in FLAC, and surround files in a diffeent folder.

I'm more interested in those of you who have specific reasons for doing anything diffeently than most folks with their server space. I have many sources of charted hit singles, for instance, from Mike Harvey's on-air library to TM Century radio format discs, to all the Rhino's and Ace's and Time-Life's and the like a mainstream music geek would ever want...only, for leisure listening, unless a party, I'm not all that interested in playing them alongside with my own personal library...so why put them in the same shuffle? I also have my own radio station library of its' own music format; so that shouldn't go along with everything else either, but it all needs to be kept in one section. Most people don't have these particulars. Perhaps others keep a wide selection of concert and boot recordings, or like to keep their Megdeath apart from their Celine Dion.

For curiosity and references' sake, I'd like to keep my Hoffman-mastered hits separate from the main various-artists hit collections. If I want to shuffle-in my Christmas music, there's only about a third of it I'm interested in having in there when guests arrive, but not the whole 300-album collection, on any holiday! And I want my Zappa/George Duke/Grandmothers to not mingle with my Beatles/Paul/Ringo/George/John archive, please, so I can enjoy these collections separately.

So, one strategy doesn't fit all people's needs.

 

I have a NAS and an Oppo 205, and I use only the Oppo unit's browser for selection. As such, file organization is important. This is how I organized:

1. Highest level is multichannel vs everything else, as I don't listen to mch very often, so it's out of the way in a separate top-level folder. Multichannel's subfolders mimic the rest of the structure as laid out below.
2. Next level is genre. I had artist sort as highest level for my physical CDs, but I noticed that I tend to choose first based on genre / sub-genre, so I went with this at a higher level than artist, and it has worked out great for me.
3. Then I do artist level sorting with smart naming (last name first, "The" at the end as mentioned in a previous post, etc.).
4. Within each artist, I have album folders. I prefix the original year of issue to the name of the album so that I get a chronological sort order. If I have more than one version of an album, they are in a subfolder of the album folder. Multidisc and special edition issues that have extras get their own subfolders under the album folder. These often split up the same way as they appear on multi-redbook discs or separate titles on DVD and Blu-ray discs.
5. Beyond the album level, there is no special sorting of redbook vs high-res or of any specific technology high-res (e.g., DSD vs PCM (for which I use flac) or whether a PCM source was from a Blu-ray, DVD-A, etc., although folder names usually include this info, especially when I have multiple masterings of a given album.

Doug

 

Dilly, You need to look into creating playlists - playlists by certain artists, genre, period, style, date, and whatever else comes to your mind. And if you want shuffle play instead of a static list, the better players will let you play a playlist on shuffle mode.

 

But...I'm not interested in creating playlists. I'm interested in other people's notions of how different filing systems will serve their individual interests. When I list my examples, it's to get people to open up about their own particulars, I'm not looking for advice on how to handle a specific need of my own.

I won't even consider making playlists for myself anyway, until I can get a filing system that solves my particular challenges...so I can begin ripping and arranging my library the way I think will answer my concerns. Then, maybe I'll think about making playlists someday, should I decide I need playlists for something that shuffle-play strategies are already in place for. You're jumping the gun a bit, here.

 

I guess that I should have added that I never "shuffle play" off my servers; it's basically reaching for an album and playing it - only it's done through a BD player connecting to servers. So that's the driver behind why I organize my files / music the way I do.

If that's ever too much effort I dial into a favourite FM station or three, or one of the hundred or so specialty music channels available with my cable subscription, and let them do the shuffling.

Jeff

 

Obviously, you have a large collection of music and much more. No, I wouldn't want "Here Comes Santa Claus" in the middle of July on a Friday night.

My collection of music is tagged by four things: Artist, Album, Track Title and Track Number without regard to file type, FLAC, MP3, etc or year. Everything I have is 2CH. I prefer alphabetical order when viewing a list of albums beneath an artist. Kind of like the library, they don't sort their stuff by year (but I understand that may work fine for some).

I'll offer an idea of what I have done with many of the artists that may or may not work for you. As an example I'll use the Allman Brothers. In my system, the Allman Brothers are called, "ABB". Open that ABB folder you'll find...you guessed right! The Allman Brothers Band! But you'll also find some other stuff. Dickey Betts solo album, "Highway Call" is in there. Gregory Allman's "Laid Back" is also in there and others. I consider the Allman's an extended family through time. If you look at the artist of Mr. Betts "Highway Call" it will say "ABB".

This works for me because I know my collection well . It is small. But it's a simpler way to organize. "The Band" is another one this works for me. I have Danko, Helm, etc. solo stuff in the same folder. If I go to shuffle one of these folders such as the ABB, I not only get the core music of the classic band, I get variety.

Now, lets say for instance I have the Allman Brothers, "Brothers and Sisters" downloaded from HDTracks and I also have the original Polydor CD from the 80's. Or let's say a Brothers and Sisters Deluxe Edition downloaded from HDTracks. It would look like this:

ABB
Brothers And Sisters HDT
Brothers And Sisters PD
Brothers And Sisters DE HDT

The different editions are included in the album title. Just another way of doing things.

I shuffle my whole collection all the time. It sounds just like the radio station that doesn't exist. Even though I know most of my stuff well, something will throw me off occasionally and I have to go look and see who it is.

 

So, does Fripp go in the Eno folder...or does Eno go with Fripp...?

 

Dilly,
The problem is that you keep throwing out multiple variables including shuffle play and encoding formats, when these are not issues dependent upon directory structure and personal browsing tastes. And it makes your question(s) unclear. Additionally, if directory structure is you primary issue, then we’ve had many threads on the subject.

With regards to directory structure, the demographics of this forum run heavily to Pop/Rock/R&B as the preferred genres and most like to browse their collections (physical and digital) as they would have found a record store layout - Pop/Rock/R&B artists, sorted by “Album Artist”, in the general floor sales area (root folder of your collection). And the other genres (Jazz, Classical, Country, Soundtracks, Various Artists, etc.) collected in the back of the store (i.e., sub-folders). If you don’t want your favorite Pop/Rock/R&B artist to have to mingle with the likes of some lessor acts that you’ve ripped, then create separate Pop, Rock & R&B sub-folders too for these acts.

If your “Various Artists” collections run so huge that they need more organization, then use sub-folders under “Various Artists” - ex: Various Artists\Time-Life\[name of collection]. And you could even use genres again as a sub-folder if its varied and large enough.

 

That’s your personal decision - I recommend placing them in the artists folder that you’re most likely to go looking for them.

 

I was responding to Jon1969. He was describing how he bundles other relevant artists in his Allman file.

 

GreenDrazi, you misunderstand my reasons for starting the thread this way. I am more interested in other people's solutions to their own particular issues. I give my "multiple variables including shuffle play and encoding formats" as examples, to give others an idea of what else they might have specific issues with, and how they solve them. As I have had tried explaining to you.

And yes, we have had a few different threads on directory structure. I've been in a couple of them. Common solutions, however, don't always apply to my own uses. I'm looking for others examples to give me ideas, not so much being helped solving my own specifics. It is my hope that having to derail the discussion every three posts to explain why, doesn't turn people off and have them leave. I am just looking for other people's ideas, not self-help solutions to what they percieve as my problems. So, thanks but I'm not looking for fishermen to tell me how to fish...I am looking for others to tell me why they fish.

 

Music/96.32/Artist/Album/tracks, packed with wavpack.exe for archive. If I want to listen Hi-Res, I unpack selection with wvunpack.exe in separate folder and play; then I delete the uncompressed wav_96.32s.

Music/44.16/Artist/Album/tracks, uncompressed wav_44.16 for playing in my smartphone or casual PC audition.

I have an external HDD Rack RaidSonic Icy Box IB-351StU3-B, 3.5 inch, USB 3.0 with a 2TB
HDD for music archive.

I made a bat file for auto packing/unpacking an entire folder.

Code:

@echo off
@setlocal
color 0B
    echo  ÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜ
    echo  Ý                                          ÚÄÄÄ¿Þ
    echo  Ý     PACK/UNPACK with lossless WAVPACK    ³ û ³Þ
    echo  Ý                                          ÀÄÄÄÙÞ
    echo  ßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßß
    echo:

echo ---------------------
SET /P _pack=PACK? (y,*):
echo ---------------------

IF /I "%_pack%"=="y" goto step1

echo ---------------------
SET /P _unpack=UNPACK? (y,*):
echo ---------------------

IF /I "%_unpack%"=="y" goto step2

echo ARE YOU NUTS?
ping 127.0.0.1 -n 4 > nul
EXIT

:step1
wavpack.exe -a -h -v -d *.wav
GOTO stepEND

:step2
wvunpack.exe -m *.wv

:stepEND
echo:
echo job done... Bye, Bye
echo:
PAUSE

 

I rip everything to FLAC stored on one file by artist name, about 3tb currently. I do not make playlists or random shuffle, just not my thing. If I were to random shuffle, I would do it by genre.
I can search my library by name, genre, year. I do keep all my recordings of classical music in a single folder labeled as such inside the file.
I use dbPoweramp and can convert the flac files to a different format at will. I only have redbook rips, so I have not had the concern of labeling higher-res rips. When I have multiple versions of the same album I insert language in the title to differentiate.
My biggest concern is using identical spelling when ripping. Any deviation results in the file being stored elsewhere, can be a problem when ripping multiple disc cd's like boxsets.

 

I separate my music not by type or format but by program. I give each music management program (MediaMonkey, Media Go, Windows Media Player, iTunes, Music Center For PC) its own folder and allow each to only access that specific folder. If I want to put a song in each program, I put a copy of the same song in each program's folder.

One of the main reasons I do this is that each program handles metadata in a different way. Allowing two, or more, programs to access the same music file can cause issues with the metadata on the file. As an example is album art:

• MediaMonkey: Stores it in the ID3 tag, in the folder, or in both locations (your choice)
  
• Media Go: Stores it in the ID3 tag.
• Windows Media Player: Stores it as two separate hidden system files in the song's folder.

Within each folder I separate the music as follows (when the program allows me the option):

• Type: Music, Audiobooks, Podcasts
  • Album Artist
    • Album
      • Track Number - Song Title.extension

 

I use JRiver. All but one of my tracks are WAV; the odd one out is an MP3.

I have separate libraries for classical (relatively small), pop type music (most), and one for a few test recordings. I'm not interested in metadata beyond the basic facts of artist name, album, track, time.

Classical is filed under composer order. Pop is filed under bands, or artists using their surname first (Fleetwood Mac, but Mitchell, Joni). JRiver organise all Fleetwood Mac into one folder.

I don't have copious different versions of the same album by one artist, just the best version.

I make great use of the playlist facility on JRiver. In fact I mostly use the playlists for playback. Sometimes I use the 'hits' playlist - the songs I've played most recently. It's also fun to use shuffle the whole library.

 

You have made some great points. The programs you use to rip the files make a difference in the tags and album art. One to two years ago I deleted everything I could on my computer. I got rid of mp3 and went out and replaced it with the best CD possible. Most of my mp3s were downloads of oop stuff. I had previously used Windows Media Player (and a couple others) and found it a hassle, don't know why I used it so long.

I ripped all my discs using one program, DBPoweramp & rip them to FLAC. That was the first step, I would change as much as I could with DBPoweramp such as the name of the band, "Is it Charlie Daniels, The Charlie Daniels Band or Charlie Danies Band?" My answer to that one is "CDB". I would also shorten many song titles and delete such stuff as the word, "Live" which is tacked onto the end of every track on some live albums. Or the word "Remastered". I just need the name of the song. 13 word titles such as "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down Live Remastered Extra Track Lost Tape" became simply "Dixie". Kind of exaggerating but I had a few CDs that resembled that.

My second step after ripping them with DBPoweramp is to open the files in MP3Tag which works well with FLAC files despite the name. After deleting the album art out of the actual folders, I would often find the album art again in another place in the same file using MP3Tag. A couple CDs were tricky, I had problems locating the art, but eventually figured it out. I just don't really care about the album art anymore. Once upon a time I did. MP3 Tag works perfectly for editing the tags further and straightening out the file names as they will be different. The ones I download from HDTracks will be different than the ones of my ripped CDs. I make the file names all agree.

Most of my tunes are rock, country or blues or a mixture. They pretty much work well when shuffled. I like listening to whole albums at a time or shuffle everything. If I had classical or comedy, I would probably have separate folders for classical or jazz, comedy, etc.

 

I'm not that familiar with them, but if they both had albums together along with respective solo albums, I would file them under "Fripp and Eno" or "Eno and Fripp" however they commonly put their names on the albums. Possibly all of it under "King Crimson". Just depends on how you look at stuff. If they are very closely associated artists, I lump them together. Lumping associated acts together works well for me with many of them. For some I keep them filed individually. It's just one different way of filing things, not the end all way.