Rock band that could really improvise

Since rock's inception in the 50s and 60s, memorable songwriting has long been the coin of the realm whereas improvisation was more prominent in jazz. As the 60s gave way to the 70s, we started to see more rock bands stretch out and experiment, drawing inspiration from the great jazz players in terms of improvisation. Where many rock fans crave solid structure and hooks, some of us strange ones also gravitate towards a more free ranging sound, offering unexpected twists and turns. There are hazards with this approach, of course, and some of the less successful attempts might lead to aimless noodling, but when it comes into focus, well executed improvisation can be thrilling.

Which rock bands really thrived with improvisation and what are some of your favorite improv based pieces? And as an unavoidable side question, how does improvisation differ from "jamming" or are they basically one and the same?

 

Allman Brothers. Of course.

 

The Good ol' Grateful Dead.

 

King Crimson. 72-74 !



Wilco
Led Zeppelin
TheWho

 

Henry Cow - at best very effective in a definitely non-noodling way

 

Soft Machine - that was almost the whole point of them.

And of course the mighty Can in Tristero's avatar.

 

There are two big names that come to mind for me right away in terms of rock improv: the Grateful Dead and King Crimson. I am only a moderate Dead fan, so I will let someone else speak to their efforts in this area. Improvisation has always been central to what King Crimson did, starting with "Moonchild" on their debut (perhaps not their most successful effort in this regard, but an important first step nonetheless) and their early performances with the original line up. Sometimes they took their cues from jazz by setting up a loose structure and then allowing each of the individual members to solo--some of their extended takes on "Get Thy Bearings" worked like this and the Islands era band also tended to follow this model, along with some more blues based jamming.

Things took a decisive turn with the formation of the Larks' Tongues line up, in particular with the arrival of percussionist Jamie Muir. From their earliest performances in '72, this band would indulge extended improvised epics, allowing each of the members to stretch out and interact. The rock solid Wetton-Bruford rhythm section provided a solid foundation while Muir would go crazy with anything and everything he could get his hands on. Cross and Fripp would then provide more of the melodic counterpoints, though they were also textural players too. Witnessing this early line up in the Bremen performance is quite exciting (the long awaited release of the "Rich Tapestry of Life" improv was a major score) and you can really see how Muir was driving the band on into the unknown, stalking around the stage like a man possessed, egging the other musicians on. Here is another early improv piece from their Oxford performance that's a little more delicate and ornate than the more bone crunching "Rich Tapestry" with some lovely interaction between Fripp and Cross at first before it gradually builds up into more of a frenzy.

 

The dangerous Deep Purple!

 

Much of the dead's improvisational style came from free form roots they had during the acid tests where it was an anything goes environment. That and their love of like minded jazz players like Coltrane and Charlie Parker added to their sound. The allman bros cited kind of blue by miles davis for their improvisational base. Quicksilver messenger service and Jefferson airplane were also good at this as were the early velvet underground. Give a listen to east west by the butterfield blues band if you're not familiar with it.

 

Hot Tuna

 

Zappa/Mothers

 

Sonic Youth

 

Muir didn't stick it out with Crimson for very long, but his freewheeling sensibility definitely informed their whole '72 - '74 output. Where in the past their improvs had more of a jazzy flavor, Wetton's beefy bass gave their improvs more of a heavy rock feel. Sometimes, the improvs would serve as intro pieces (often leading into "Exiles") or interludes between other songs, but sometimes they were more like ends in themselves, as with "Starless and Bible Black" and it's notable that the band kept making room for these kinds of pieces on their studio albums. For a while they seemed to hone down the improvs into shorter, concentrated blasts, but by the end of their '74 tour, they were again stretching out into longer excursions. Two lengthy pieces stand out from this era: "Asbury Park" is an extraordinary "voyage to the center of the cosmos" with Bruford and Wetton locking into a funky groove as Fripp deals out some incendiary riffage.



Another great piece from this era is the "Providence" improv. I'll admit that as a young teenager, I didn't know what to make of it, as featured on side two of Red. It wasn't until much later on that I learned to appreciate it. "Providence" offers up a bit more of a modern classical feel with Cross' violin playing as it meanders intriguingly through the first few minutes, but then when Bruford's percussion kicks in and Wetton's fearsome bass rises out of the chaos, it sends chills down my spine. This line up was really masterful with this kind of "tension and release" dynamic.

 

With The Who it was hit and miss. While they were really 'out there', they were not technically superior compared to bands like Led Zeppelin or King Crimson. The Who basically used the same patterns and riffs to stretch out every time they jammed, which sometimes went good and sometimes went a bit 'wrong'. It's important to remember that they were basically rebels on their instruments. They really wanted to shake it all up and take chances within their field, which they certainly did. I love The Who, so this is really just an observation from my point of view. Agree???

 

Definitely. I've been really big on his '72 - '74 phase with George Duke lately and we've been very fortunate to get a lot of great live archival releases from this era showcasing Frank's improvisational side: Imaginary Diseases, Road Tapes Vol. 2, Little Dots, etc. Extended pieces like "Dupree's Paradise" (a great showcase for Duke in particular) and "Farther Oblivion" offered enough structure to hold your attention, but with all sorts of unexpected twists and turns. Zappa was a uniquely gifted band leader who knew how to get the most out of his musicians, allowing them to cut loose without going off the deep end.

 

It did not take many posts yo get my top choices on the leader board

Grateful Dead
Crimson
Allmans
Zep

The Who jammed well in the early lead 70s Live at Leeds makes the case

 

The answer is

Allman Bros.

Followed by

Little Feat

 

I'll field this one. Colloquially, "jamming" is often used as a pejorative: jam bands are just playing endless, noodly pieces that don't go anywhere. But jamming is just a single form of improvisation of which there are several. I can't say that these have formal definitions or names, but they tend to be structured on the level of improvisation involved (I'll also include a few examples, but note that I am not making value judgments - I may have my preferences, but I'm simply slotting bands into what generally fits what my ear is telling me - also, many bands used several or all forms to improv to varying degrees, so there are no really clear lines among the forms below):

1. The most basic form of improvisation involves choices regarding notes, dynamics, and to a lesser extent, rhythms. A fair number of bands have and still do use this approach. Basically, the material is played fairly faithful to the original or studio version (assuming there is one), but there is some latitude in terms of harmonic movement (i.e., perhaps suggesting a passage of dorian or lydian modes in contexts that are not normally based on these modes; or moving the bass line from descending, descending, descending, descending to descending, descending, descending, ascending to transition to a Middle 8) and ebbs and flows in the dynamics (and perhaps some rhythmic elements).
2. A second form is one where there is a rotation of soloists while the remainder of the band is free to employ form #1 above while the soloist is free to vary the solo from what is "standard." This was the standard format for most jazz up until about 1960 and also served as the model for bands like The Allman Bros, Zeppelin, Deep Purple Mark II, etc.
3. A third form is highly structured/written segments sandwiched among highly improvisational segments. The best example of this is Zappa. The Zappa improvs were sort of an amalgamation of forms #1 and 2 above, with more flexibility given to the non-soloists in certain contexts, such that things could become close to #4 below.
4. Collective improvisation - this is what best describes the approached used by musicians such as Ornette Coleman (Free Jazz, etc.), Grateful Dead, Miles Davis (Bitches Brew, etc.), Sun Ra's Arkestra and scores of other bands that generally tend to be somewhat lesser-know the the average listener. King Crimson would also fall in this category, but often played very straight pieces or pieces that fall in the categories above. The main component here is the ability of any instrumentalist to influence the direction of the music, melodically, harmonically and/or rhythmically. Some might consider this "everybody playing lead" but when done well, it's closer to "no one playing lead but everyone eventually climbing onto a previously non-existent melodic/harmonic/rhythmic form, exploring it, and then moving somewhere else. This form can, with flexibility, also draw upon approaches 1-3 above.

My nutshell. There are certainly more forms; take Dylan. He puts little emphasis on the guitar solo (typically) but, pending the level of rehearsal with his various bands, he injects genre-bending elements by playing familiar songs in different styles (e.g., say, Mr. Tambourine Man as a rhumba).

Boy, I've yammered on enough.

 

Grobschnitt
Pink Floyd
Van der Graff Generator

 

As great as King Crimson was/is and as great as The Allmans were in their prime, no rock band approached what the Grateful Dead could do as far as improvisational brilliance.

My primary listening for at least 20 years was free jazz/free improvisation and the Dead is the only band that compares in any way to the best of the free improvisors of the past 50 years.

 

there are many but there is only one allman brothers!

 

Prince and any incarnation of his bands post-Revolution.

 

The Cure 1980-1982: lots of great improvisation during their encores, both lyric-wise and musically.

 

I wouldn't have necessarily thought of them here. Can you share some examples?

 

Surely Cream must feature here somewhere, followed by the Jimi Hendrix Experience.