Rock band that could really improvise

For the Grateful Dead, their main period of serious collective improv is also ~72-74, though there are plenty of instances of it before and after (witness the polarizing Drums/Space segments of their late period concerts.)

With the glut of officially released concerts from the archives, there are multiple examples now available commercially (even if some are limited release and/or OOP.)

'Dark Star' from 4-8-72 in London is a great example. For a more 'short and sweet' approach check out any version of 'Playin in the Band' from that tour, Archtop has one he'll point you right towards, even down to the minute.

I think 'invented psychedelia' is a bit of an overstatement, as the Bay Area Acid Test/other acid scenes>Trips Festival>Bill Graham/Family Dog at the Fillmore continuum was well in progress when the Butterfield Blues Band hit town in March of 66, but it was definitely a watershed moment, and the impact of Mike Bloomfield on the SF scene almost can't be overestimated.

 

So I wanted to post this clip re: improvisation. It's a basic well-known tune, with a solo from Garcia I've always found remarkable. Like the first couple of times I wondered if he had his hand in the wrong spot when he started playing, but then I realized it was completely intentional. (1:55-3:00)


The entire clip is a good example of Lesh's MO on a tune like this - (ie, improvising all his lines, continual counterpoint with Garcia, etc. ) but the Garcia solo is the part I rewind over and again.

To me this is an example of a couple of master improvisers (along with a highly talented and locked in ensemble,) showing off a collective improv approach on a highly conventional structure (i.e. a country song,) that yields a couple of moments of (IMO) improvisational brilliance.

 

Yes, yes, yes and yes. These two rock bands came the most close to the collective improvisational approach to music that "new jazz" figured out in about 1960. And I'll go as far to say that there is a very important book there yet to be written. I had that as my ace in the hole, my retirement plan, but I realize that while I am a scientific writer of some moderate note, I cannot possibly write it. I am, however, available for research purposes to anyone who sees the same potential for a mega work of high importance. "Archtop" as a verb does indeed exist here for good reason, although I'm a bit embarrassed to mention it.

 

Don't know if anyone's mentioned Earthless yet, but they're a modern day band with a classic sound that does lots of improvisation.

 

That's such a cool record! One "song", four sides of vinyl, great improvising! And that cover... oh yeah!

 

Someone somewhere (here?) said all jamming is a form of improvisation but not all improvising is jamming. To me the main difference is that jamming is more informal interactive playing by musicians who often have fewer technical skills but, when it's done well, have a good sense of interplay and create something that moves or is moving whereas improvisation is interactive playing among musicians with a more solid grounding in music theory and such and, when that is done well, the result has both the feeling and the techniques to create something that goes beyond the looser playing that is generally what jamming is all about. Both can create works worthy of repeated listening.

 

I suspect you're right about a live double Boston if it had been released as planned. Perhaps the band needed just that one more release to truly establish themselves. Unfortunately, Peter chose to walk away and it seems like there's just a very small handful of people who appreciate the band's talents.
Spencer's Elmore James routine does get tiresome but I must confess that I love the Spencer-led versions of Stranger Blues and Tiger.
Having said that, I'm not sure 80 minutes is long enough to get the best moments from Peter's songs at Boston, let alone Danny's and Jeremy's.
Several of Kirwan's numbers are excellent such as Loving Kind, World In Harmony, Like It This Way. While several of the numbers heard are pretty tight and worked out, the improvisations are superb and in the case of something like Rattlesnake Shake really develop and go somewhere.
The BBC In Concert tape recorded 9 April 1970 is quite the stunner too. Even at half the length of the Boston version, Rattlesnake Shake/Underway is excellent and Green's improvisation style has moved on from Boston. It's hard to understand why the full best quality tape of that show hasn't been issued. The BBC do have a copy of it in perfect quality. Many other good to excellent tapes exist of late 69 -70 shows too and I'd really like to know just how much of the Norwegian show filmed by NRK (?) TV has survived. Three have seen official release with a 4th (Rattlesnake Shake) widely bootlegged which seems to suggest that the whole concert may still exist. Green's solo performance of World Keeps Turning is great, even more so because he only played it to give Danny time to replace a broken string.

 

I would definitely add at least Can and Henry Cow to this top-list.

As already mentioned Can based their entire modus operandi on improvisation, both in studio and on stage. They approached free-form jamming/improvising in a very unique way, quite unlike what other academy-trained rock musicians tried their hand at (e.g. John Cale's minimalism or Phil Lesh' polyphony). It's worth checking the 35-minute long improv "Up the Bakerloo" (from the unofficial "Radio Waves" release; the best mastering is on the Gold Standard edition) to get the sense what the band were capable of in their prime (i.e. the first half of the 70s).

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcbjxycvPH8

Henry Cow, similarly to King Crimson, were a group of self-taught musicians, but they came a bit too late to enjoy a wider recognition. Still their knack for collective improvisation led them to create some finest rock improvisations ever recorded on tape. In the first half of the 70s the band improvised over a structured framework and their watershed moment would come in 1976, when they embarked on a tour without the vocalist and played all-out free-improv sets, as evidenced on "Trondheim 1976" release. A year earlier 29-minute long improv "Oslo" from their live compilation "Concerts" (Bob Drake's remaster is recommended) is a good foretaste of the things to come.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx8bdPbcCrE
www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4Vk0vHaJv8


Finally, it is worth bringing up two other contemporary attempts at unusual free-form improvisation: AreA - "Event '76", a conducted improv (another type!) session with Steve Lacy and Paul Lytton, and Zamla Mammaz Manna - "För Äldre Nybegynnare", a music concrete-inspired collection of improvisations culled from their 1977 improv-only tour. Very intense and abstract, so proceed with caution!

 

Lol...I'll take MES over this Bailey fella anyday.

 

As far as folk-rock jams go the first artist that comes across my mind is John Martyn, who probably stretched the longest among his improv-inclined folk contemporaries (Pentangle, R. Thompson, T. Buckley, R. Harper, Donovan, etc). Martyn's live recordings from the 70s showcase lots of improvising, among them this lovely jam performed with Paul Kossoff (and his bandmates from Free), known as "Time Spent" or "Time Away" (1971):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSskA-08EeM

 

Here is a nice study on Zappa's improvisational patterns:

http://diginole.lib.fsu.edu/islandora/object/fsu:181864/datastream/PDF/view

 

Yellow Magic Orchestra, at least in their first international tour band with Kazumi Watanabe - lots of live performances were recorded and all are different, with the band improvising The End Of Asia and 1000 Knives in particular. Of the band, Sakamoto, Watanabe, Takahashi and Akiko Yano had just come off a fusion tour supporting Watanabe's Kylyn project, so were really used to improvising in that field. Hosono and Matsutake were responsible for the programming elements but managed to improvise too which was really impressive. Watch this clip from 4.00 onwards and watch the faces of the rest of the band as Sakamoto goes off..

 

John Mayall on this album

 

Ten Years After

 

Especially during encores, either or both of the following might occur during concerts between 1980 and 1982:

• they would repeat a song already played during the concert proper, but with a completely fresh set of lyrics, extemporized by Robert Smith on the spot, and with subtle or strong changes to the musical arrangement;
• they had a basic structure for a song that first appeared as an unfinished sketch on the "Seventeen Seconds" album, one time was performed with a full arrangement for a BBC radio session but was never laid down in a proper studio version. Instead, "Forever" was frequently pulled out of the hat at the end of concerts and was performed differently each time, with the song's length varying from 4 to 10+ minutes and with lyrics being improvised night after night (although, as time went on, a few recurring themes did emerge). During the 1982 concerts a second such song emerged, "All Mine", which similarly was only played during encores, followed similar but ever changing lines musically and had new lyrics every night.

Forever was still a stalwart during the 1984 concert tours, but as the band got bigger they cut down on the improvisations. Still, from time to time, they could and did surprise audiences with a performance of Forever. Also, classic songs like A Forest & Faith have, at different times through the years, been played live in extended arrangements and, yet again, with freshly made up lyrics.

 

I would argue the Rolling Stones were masterful at improvisation in the early Ron Wood era. Their "art of weaving" as Keith called it, was amazing especially when the vastly underappreciated Bill Wyman was part of the mix. Listen to live versions of Beast of Burden or Imagination and you'll see what I mean. Improv from the soul more than the brain.

 

Cream is the first band that comes to mind here. Then the west coast acid rock bands like the Dead, Quicksilver, Airplane (and Hot Tuna). English blues rock bands like Ten Years After, Savoy Brown, early Fleetwood Mac. And of course Jimi Hendrix. Then the Allmans.

 

Gosh, I really really really want to believe this, but I have never heard it. The way their initial albums teased at some kinda of experimental guitar driven fusing of blues rock jazz folk classical, etc., but never never never delivered. And disappointingly live they were essentially THEE proto boogie act, not some wide ranging musical omnivore.




Surprised '68 - '72 Pink Floyd is not being debated.

 

Well, Prince was very good at classic funk jamming and played some really intricate solos over the groove:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFSmI3IxV30

It goes without saying! At first they played psychedelic free-form improvs, then proceeded to structured minimalist improvisations interwoven into the composition fabric and finally (from 1973 onward) moved to classic pentatonic jamming territory. At least that's how I hear it.

 

Actually they sometimes ventured into "uncharted" territories...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cfpKjtFo7E
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nynaDu259WQ

 

We haven't even touched on a certain style of jamming, possibly improv as shown by James Brown, Meters, Mandrill, War, Sly Stone, P-Funk, etc., where the groove (rhythm) was maintained, but melody and harmony changed/morphed.

Prince was definitely a great player, but the band was not of equals, and nobody was going where Prince didn't want to go, it was not exploratory, everybody was on leashes.

 

A good example of this, outside of the concert experience, is the 84 jam "Son of Alerik". It's a 10 min jam made up on the spot because Ritchie Blackmore didn't want to start shooting the footage for their "Under the Gun" promo which the crew had been hired to do. Apparently the jam was also filmed, Roger told me this, but it has yet to be found.

 

Yes with Bruford was a great improvisational band imo.

 

Using traditional Japanese instruments, homemade electronics, mandolins, violins, voices, the ocean etc., Taj Mahal Travellers epitomize to me improvisation. Nothing was through composed, all of it was of the moment:


Taj Mahal Travellers On Tour 1972

 

Good call. Martyn often liked to stretch out and explore jazz-inflected terrain, most notably with this extended concert set piece from the mid 70s: