Roger Waters as a bassist- underappreciated?

You really dislike this guy, don't you? Relentless.

 

Music discussions always end up in two camps: discussed by those into (and probably who play) music technically and those into the over all finished product (usually non-musicians or amateur players). Each have their places for sure; their own strengths and weaknesses. Country music is case in point for this: the slick Nashville Cats vs. the sloppy Bakersfield or country-rock players.

In the case of Waters I agree with those who say he's a prominent lyricist/conceptual-ist and a lesser technical player. In my experience though it's easier to find find great technical players and less easy to find people with great visions for the music as a whole, so I'm a little more impressed with people in pop music with "ideas" rather than "chops" because it seems a rarer occurrence and also because I care more about what the audience is demanding. Look at bands like Oasis. Later on they got better technical players in the group but the audience is still screaming for them to get "the lads" back. This also applies to singers who leave their band and get better technical musicians to back them but the audience still want the less adept band back together.

Different points of interests for different people.

As for the OP's question I can only answer in terms of live Floyd because I'm never quite sure what Waters is playing in the studio. In a nutshell: I like Waters but I also can't imagine Floyd having an Entwistle/Moon type section because their songs don't seem to require it.

But I guess I'd say I appreciate him more for his lyrics and visions than playing whereas the opposite is true from me of Entwistle. Macca and Phil Lynott are probably some of the few bassists who excel at both.

 

Roger ruffles a lot of feathers with his comments on Trump and Israel. That is all I will say.

 

!!! Well... I thought this was a bass playing appreciation discussion.

 

Nonsense. He sings "Brain Damage", "Eclipse", "Grantchester Meadows", among others. Not barn-burning vocal performances but he is actually singing in tune. By comparision, at the Wembley concert being discussed, note that David is often out of tune. Not egregiously so, but he blows a few notes.

 

I'm saying I remember hearing comments from Nick before the Dark Side Immersion set was released that he had to go in and re-record some of the drum parts on the live recording because the bass drum was practically inaudible or some such thing. Never heard Roger mention it, but I think @gary191265 was suggesting that the sync issues between cash registers and drums were fixed on the official Wembley release. I didn't verify that but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

I don't like his politics either but that has f-all to do with his musicianship or most of his tenure with Pink Floyd.

 

It's not uncommon for the piano player to tune, since they tend to have the best ears.. Guitars go out of tune after one song, sometimes, especially after using the tremolo bar.

As for Wright playing the bass? C'mon... David did play bass on a few tracks - Pigs, Hey You, Young Lust, but some make it seem like Roger didn't play the bass on most of the tracks. I did hear David in an interview say that sometimes he'd record something Roger came up with to save time, "and Roger would come up to me and say 'thank you'". On "Pigs - Three Different Ones" it was Roger on rhythm guitar, but no one would say it was because of David; just the way things work out. If you're in the studio, you are on a schedule, album release date not withstanding, time is money, and there have been many times where it was Roger or David on the synth instead of Rick, not because Rick wasn't good, but because someone had an idea. That's a band.

 

David has the same politics as Roger. Remember it was David who invited him to the 2010 Palestinian Benefit concert, and who said he'd play a song on Roger's "Wall" show. I never understood why this was talked about so often, you could listen to past songs, read past interviews, even questionnaires.

David is the only one here calling himself a Socialist.. (I hope he doesn't lose fans!!!)... Lots of questions, I haven't read this in a while.

 

Exactly. It's like the discussions that occasionally pop up about Bill Wyman and how he must really blow because Keith or Mick Taylor played so many bass parts. Well, no, it's not because Wyman can't play, but because Keith wanted to lay the bass part down at 4 AM and Wyman was in bed asleep. Things happen when they happen.

 

As Gilmour once said "Roger playing fretless bass? Oh please."

 

In bed - more than likely.

Asleep - most unlikely.

 

Well, surely he was done by 4AM!

 

No, I was saying that the timing of the bass guitar was either fixed or entirely re-recorded as it sounds nothing like the bootlegged version.

 

Of course, Waters is a lot more outspoken about his politics in interviews, in his albums and even in his live shows. Gilmour may well share similar viewpoints, but he's more circumspect about announcing them to the world. It's easier for Gilmour fans to simply enjoy the music without all of the ideological baggage. Of course, some Waters fans appreciate his take on current events, but he can be more polarizing.

 

OMG!!

 

As I was saying, stuff re-recorded on an official live release? Perish the thought!

Listen the the bootleg In Celebration Of The Comet to hear vintage Roger in sync with the cash registers.

 

I also read an interview with Gilmour, where he laughed at the idea of Waters playing fretless bass. He confirmed it was Palladino.

 

Pino played on "Hey You"?

 

OK, I remember reading that interview with Gilmour but I was pretty sure he says he'd played them. But anyway, I think everyone understands that Roger doesn't play fretless bass.

 

I can't tell you which songs, but if "Hey You" has a fretless bass part, Palladino played it. At least per David Gilmour.

 

I love most of the songs Waters wrote and/or co-wrote on More, Obscured By Clouds, Meddle, DSOTM and WYWH and think Amused To Death is an excellent album that has as much going for it as the 3 post-Waters studio releases by Pink Floyd. I also appreciate the concepts underlying the above albums and his live shows and this has motivated me to go see him twice, on the In The Flesh tour and his most recent tour. I also own all his other rock releases and have listened to them each multiple times.

I don't think he is much of a singer or bass player though and give him no more credit than I give Wright or Gilmour for the things I most love about Pink Floyd, so his dismissive comments towards them irk me. As for politics, I agree with him on some points, not on others, but overall I don't love mixing politics with music and prefer lyrics that deal with universal romantic interpersonal dynamics.

I disagree that piano players have the best ears. It takes a much better ear to play instruments like strings, winds, horns, harmonica, slide guitar - and even regular guitar if you bend notes - than to play an instrument where all the notes are fixed and cant even be bent. In the days before tuners it was common to tune to pianos because they had the most stable pitch, and even if their pitch was off it was a lot easier to change the tuning of 6 strings on a guitar to match a keyboard than to retune well over 100 piano strings (as some notes are double strung) to match a guitar.

 

Here's the interview I read:

Pink Floyd and Company - David Gilmour Interview

CD: Did you play the fretless bass on "Hey You"?

DG: Yeah. Hmm. Roger playing fretless bass? Please! (laughs)

No mention of Palladino.

 

Both of these topics have nothing to do with the thread. The latter topic doesn't even have a place on the forum. (While the former topic appears to be water under the bridge for years now. To those involved.)

 

I was responding to your post saying I must really dislike Waters by saying what I like or dislike about him, so if you have an issue with someone changing the topic then please note that it was you who changed the topic in that way. I had not brought either until you raised the topic of what my personal feelings about Waters were. Before that I was speaking about his bass playing, and then included his singing when someone raised that as evidence of him having a decent sense of pitch.

And I really made no political comment at all in my post. Saying I agree with him on some things and not others is about as apolitical as you can get. It is probably more political to discuss the weather these days.