Rogue Cronus Magnum II vs McIntosh

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Guy Gadbois, Jun 19, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Tauren04

    Tauren04 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Florida
    It’s definitely a plus, but Class D is otherwise known as a switching amplifier (they have high peak power specs, but continuous not so much). I prefer AB class because I get accepted levels of distortions at accepted output power and power consumption.
     
  2. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    One of these days, a chip company will figure out a way to remedy this shortcoming with the Class D amp ...
     
  3. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Because it is not as much fun and fun is about being an audiophile. :)

    Here is a $2,495 Bel Canto monoblock amplifer (You need two).

    BEL CANTO E.ONE REF600M MONOBLOCK AMPLIFIER

    [​IMG]

    Here are a pair of Icon Audio monoblock amplifier's which sell for 6,299.95 for the pair.

    ICON AUDIO - MB90 MkII KT150 MonoBlock

    [​IMG]

    Besides, you can't roll tubes in a class "D" or any SS amplifier.
     
  4. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I think that we have figured that out.

    It's interesting that different amplifiers, with different topologies, built at different times, with different transformer's and different tubes, some how sound the same?

    Perhaps you are not the best judge of this? But you are most certainly entitled to your opinions. However, I doubt if you have debunked a fact accepted by all tube amplifier owners that I am aware of, that basically, all of these tube amplifier's sound the same.

    Even owner's of these amplifier's don't think that they all sound the same.

    Do you also maintain that the original vintage MC-275 sounds like the modern day version, manufactured with different components and circuit design, not to mention modern day vs. vintage tubes, sound the same?

    Somewhere along the way, you seemed to have missed the request by our host to please refrain from statements about audio quality if you have not filled in your equipment profile.

    As you have been a member for a little over a year now, you might set some time to fill out your equipment profile.
    [​IMG]

    Stay with your SS, you will be in a far more happy place.
     
    _cruster and hi_watt like this.
  5. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    The current model MC275 VI sounds great. Not that it's cheap, but the retail on the MC275 is actually $5,500. (the Anniversary model that was exactly the same save a gold case -- vs. chrome -- was $1,000 more at $6,500). There's no arguing that there are many fine amps available in that price range or less, but I like McIntosh gear, personally. McIntosh is a long-established brand with a good dealer/repair network. Their products are generally of high quality and have good resale value, for stereo equipment.
     
  6. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    My comments were that I was considering the Anniversary model, some years back @ $6,500. I understand the regular MC-275 is $1,000 less.

    Never had any criticism of the amp per-say, other than I was underwhelmed by it. I like to have some sort of connection to a $5,500 amp other than the name plate.

    I did go on to state, that I did share a fondness for and would consider owning the following McIntosh amps.

    The Line Magnetic 518iA, the previous model that I own, way blows the door off any other tube amp that I own, which is a dozen of them. And, IMO, the 518iA is far superior sounding to the MC-275, which I would put the sound quality on par with a PrimaLuna KT88 based Prologue Five. Although the build quality may be better and the resale value a better percentage. Noting that it is almost three times the price of the Five.

    The LM 815ia as a class "A" SET, is $1k less than the MC-275 and it has a excellent build quality and features high quality components and point to point wiring.

    But, like the MC-30 monoblock's, it only offers 22-WPC and therefore may not as well suited to the needs of many audiophiles, due to its lower power as compared to other tube amps like the Cronos Magnum II and the MC-275.

    Quoting my prior post, I do agree with you that McIntosh does produce a quality product and that they do have excellent resale value's.
     
    snorker likes this.
  7. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    Ha! Didn’t mean to make you write that much!

    When I was shopping for my Harbeth 40.2's I compared the MC275 with some other amps at my dealer and the MC275 acquitted itself wonderfully, though admittedly at a bit higher price than some others that also sounded good. I don't know if it's more the speakers or the amp, but the combination sounds great to me, and I love the look. :cool:
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  8. Tauren04

    Tauren04 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Florida
    No need to get defensive and find a reason to make me be quiet. I had no idea this was a “feels good thread”. I’m only sharing my observations of electronics over the last 40 years.

    The “which amplifier is better” conundrum has been going on for decades. I’ve participated in many A/B tests where everyone in the room have said X amplifier sounds the same as Y amplifier when comparing McIntosh tubes (except the person who used their own tubes and/or speaker cable). Many “audiophiles” these days are plagued more so than ever by the placebo effect that their Mc225 or MC240 has some kind of “special sonic capabilities” with their endless supply of NOS tubes from Santa land.

    Unfortunately, I used to be one of those guys who wanted something “unique” and “special” which turned into an obsession. After many years I accepted what many told me and finally came to a realization after comparing multiple amplifiers using an A/B selector switch. Guess what? My friend and I could hear no difference. And we used the highly priced cables and highly priced NOS tubes that cost thousands of dollars.

    Look, I’m sure you’re a nice guy and I don’t mean to cause a ruckus, derail the thread, or be a jackass (maybe I’ve been in too many of these ridiculous conversations), but comparing old McIntosh amplifiers is just plain silly to me, just like speaker cables that cost thousands of dollars. The last refuge for people who get their feathers ruffled always tell me: “WELL I CAN HEAR THE DIFFERENCE, SO THERE!”

    You can act like I’m some run of the mill Joe who knows absolutely nothing, but it doesn’t change the fact that so many people could hear ZERO difference. In a nut shell, the MC275 was an amplifier for those needed the extra watts.

    ... I will happily update my equipment profile if that makes you happy ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  9. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I'm not being defensive and I am certainly not derailing the thread.

    While you may feel that there is no difference between these different amplifier's, and you are entitled to your own opinion, I doubt if your views are shared by other tube amplifier owners on the forum.

    I don't get the opinion that it is a "feels good thread". It was and remains a thread seeking opinions of a specific McIntosh amplifier against a specific Rogue amplifier that sells for half the price.

    I don't have a dog in this fight and I feel they are both good amplifier's but there are different, IMO, they do not sound any near the same. They are not built the same and they do not sound the same, IMO.

    FWIW, I don't buy anything based solely on price or by what heritage it may have. Rogue certainly does not have the heritage that Macintosh and other legacy manufacturer's have, but they do make excellent products that are enjoyed by many and the do so at pricing that is far less than these legacy companies.

    Having your equipment profile filled out is simply a requirement of the forum, if you are going to comment, as you have on sound quality. These are not my rules and my happiness has nothing to do with them.

    I also have no need to make you be quiet, you are free to voice your opinions as much as you wish to.

    You state "You can act like I’m some run of the mill Joe who knows absolutely nothing..." I don't have any idea who you are, other than your considered opinions differ from mine.

    The main reason for filling out your equipment profile, while commenting on sound quality, is so that other members can get an idea, what type of equipment you own and have possible experience with.

    Since you chose not to do that, when I went to look over your equipment profile, I came away with nothing what so ever to assume.

    As you are entitled to have and express your opinions, so do other members, myself included.

    It was never my intention to launch a personal on you as that is something that I would not ever have intention of doing, I am just expressing my opinions, which differ greatly from your own.

    Carry on. No offense intended. :)
     
    Gibsonian and Tauren04 like this.
  10. Tauren04

    Tauren04 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Florida
    As much as we disagree, there is one thing we can agree on - LOVE FOR AUDIO.

    I’ll update my profile with every amplifier and speaker I’ve ever owned when I’ve got some more time.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  11. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I love the look too and as I say, I'm fine with it, it is just not my cup of tea.

    If it sounds good with your Harbeth's then it works for you.

    If you have not had a chance to listen to a Line Magnetic 518iA or 845iA. I do recommend that you do so, if you have not already bought the MC-275.

    One of our member's @IanL has a 518iA and a pair of Herbeth's and he is very happy with the combination.

    Here are some of his thoughts from another thread.

    If you mention him in a post, I believe that he will reply to you.

    I can't comment on this combination as have never been a Herbeth owner myself, but I do feel that if you audition this amplifier, which is a class "A" SET, you may well be very impressed.

    Glad you enjoyed auditioning the Harbeth's with the MC-275 and you were pleased with the results. :)
     
  12. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    Thanks. I already own the MC275, so not in the market presently. Very satisfied, for now anyway. :laugh:
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  13. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Please do understand, that in a forum of this size, there are people who pop on and pontificate their "knowledgeable" opinions mostly without listing their equipment or offering an explanation for their statements.

    I believe that we do agree that we both have a LOVE FOR AUDIO!

    Most of my life, I preferred commercial amps and speakers over home audio stuff. From the 8th grade, until 2014, I have listened to SS amps all of my life. I had my first pair of Altec Lansing A7's built when I was sixteen. Until 2014, I had never heard these speakers with tube amplification. When I did, I was completely blown away.

    I have "sand" amps on most all of my systems, with the exception of the Zu's and the A7's which I always try to power from tube amplification. They are super efficient speakers and tubes take the "ouch" off of the sound that I had been listening to for over a span of four decades and didn't know better. On the previous page, you can see a photo, taken behind the TV. There are five different tube amps stored there.

    I don't worship amps, they are a machine to me, to make the sound, I don't have to see the pretty "light bulbs" shining. If there was room, the LM 518iA could be sitting back there also.

    I don't follow any "audiophile" rules. I mix modern with vintage, tube with SS, analog and digital, commercial and home gear. I just play around with it to see what kind of sound that I can achieve and what sounds best to me.

    All of my speakers are connected with $20 a 100' spool of RCA speaker cable from Amazon and my interconnect's are what ever brand that seemed to be of decent construction. My power cords are what came with the equipment. I'm fine with all of that.

    If I think that something sounds good, than I go for it, otherwise, I leave things as they were.

    Here are the speakers that I play my different tube amps through.

    [​IMG]

    The main HT/Stereo system is directly in front of the teal sofa and is all SS. I like SS too. My Emotiva SS amp is paired with Polk LSiM707's and I think that it sounds excellent, that way. I would not even consider going to the trouble to hook it up to a tube amp.

    My thinking is that tube amps work their magic on high efficiency speakers and usually do not bring much to the party with most speakers that are direct radiators of average efficiency. Better off with SS with these.

    Peace In Audio :righton:

    S&G
     
  14. Tauren04

    Tauren04 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Florida
    Do you have a picture of your Polk LSiM 707s?
     
  15. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Yes.

    [​IMG]

    The LSiM707's are driven by the SS Emotiva XPA-2 (Gen I) That was bought on sale back around 2012 for $690 (lower right on bottom shelf).
     
    displayname likes this.
  16. honestabe316

    honestabe316 Analog Rebel

    The JJ's are actually quite decent in the rogue Cronus Magnum 2.... that being said, i think that most people who buy the Cronus Magnum are doing so based on a few reasons; the first being that they are first time hifi geeks that are under the age of, i dont know, 65 maybe, who are to young to remember the days when most gear was tube based, but do remember the older folk claiming how much better they felt the tube based hifi gewr was and now that its being made regularly again and the prices are reasonable, they jump into valve gear.

    Another reason that I have to give credence to is that many of us now have the ability, at our finger tips, to read as many reveiws, whether by manufacturers, professional reveiwers, or by members/ of hifi/audiophile themed forums like this one (SHF) or Audiokarma, Audiogon, 6Moons, etc..... to get the biased and unbiased reporting on equipment that they might be considering in their endeavor to move up the audiophile ladder. This was my case and initially i had narrowed my initial search sown to about 5-8 integrated amplifiers that caught my interest. I wasnt even lokking for tube based equipment as i thought it was too expensive and for the same money i could get a SS piece that would out perform anyvtube gear at similar price points. I then went to work on these 5-8 amps and started reading and watching as many reveiws and vidsos as i could on each one. I ultimately took more interest in the user/owner reveiws as i beleive the BS levlel is much lower.

    I was pretty convinced that i was going to pull the trigger on a Parasound Halo integrated amp for roughly $2500... this was roughly september of 2017. I had talked with my neighbor who is into higher end gear and he thought the Parasound was a safe bet so i was ready. I started checking all the hifi sites trying to see what the price differences were for a few days and i was ready to choose Audio Advisor as my store but something happened in those couple of days.... i was thinking about buyer remorse and trying to come up with a good reason why the parasound might bore me after the initial purchase.... and somehow i got back on the tube envy kick.... i started looking at used conrad johnsons and scotts etc.... and out of the blue i heard of this amp called the Cronus Magnum by a company i had never heard of before and the name itself was enough to stop and take a closer look....... so for a couple of weeks i read as much as i could... i asked questions, learned the pros and cons of tube equipment over SS and finally i brought over the reveiw and spec page to my neighbor to get his opinion. He is more of the digital/ computer audiophile type, all expensive quality gear. He wasn't an expert on tubes but something in his system was tube so he knew he liked the sound. He seemed to think the specs sounded top notch and then i was ready to buy a new Cronus Magnum 2 when i saw an ad from a guy on Audiogon selling his 3 month old Cronus Mag 2 for less than 2k. He had decided to go with Rogues smaller mono-blocks and figured he could get more selling it than in a trade in. So i bought it.... when i got it i was amazed. Eventually i dug out my 500 or so cds that i had boxed up when i reverted back to vinyl because the tubey aspect of the CM2 tamed down the hard edge of the cds that i had grown so tired of....

    After about 3 months of enjoying the hell out of the Cronus, i befreinded a member on this forum and to this day we message each other several times a week. He was a C111111ronus Mag 2 owner as well and after a month or so of talking, he was kind enough to send me a sampler package of different preamp tubes to try in the CM2... a mullard, telefunken, and a bugle boy.....i played around with them and was delighted to be able to change my sound signature without some fancy DSP preset, just by rolling one tube.

    So i have a genalex gold lion in there now. I have also tried a new production telefunken "black diamond" made by JJ actually. I have found a few of them to not meet my liking but a few do and every few months i might switch them out for a change. I still put the stock JJ in occassionally as i like how it sounds. Im not a JJ fan by any means but i can say that i dont hate them. I personally think the JJ's are a perfect stock tube for a peice of gear that is going to see a lot of owners experimenting with. Also, im not sure but i think Rogue offers upgraded tube packages at an extra cost. I know the tube depot and maybe upscale audio also sell upgrade tube packages for different amps on the market for those that dont know enough about tube choosing but will trust these stores to make good choices based on customer feedback.

    I think Rogue is smart to use a middle of the shelf, low cost tube as it allows them to invest more into the beast itself and not peripherals.... i'd rather have the choice to choose the tubes i roll. Its pretty easy too considering the cost of the JJ's.... if money ever becomes tight you can always put a JJ or 5 into the CM2 and it will sound good and wont break the budget....... well thats all i have.... my thumb is getting numb.... i just ordered a Rogue Spinx 2 for my secondary system. It has 2 JJ's in the preamp section. Im sure it will sound great... but you know ill be rolling after a month or so.... its a part of the hobby that makes it remain exciting i feel....
     
    gakerty, billnunan and SandAndGlass like this.
  17. honestabe316

    honestabe316 Analog Rebel

    The JJ's are actually quite decent in the rogue Cronus Magnum 2.... that being said, i think that most people who buy the Cronus Magnum are doing so based on a few reasons; the first being that they are first time hifi geeks that are under the age of, i dont know, 65 maybe, who are to young to remember the days when most gear was tube based, but do remember the older folk claiming how much better they felt the tube based hifi gewr was and now that its being made regularly again and the prices are reasonable, they jump into valve gear.

    Another reason that I have to give credence to is that many of us now have the ability, at our finger tips, to read as many reveiws, whether by manufacturers, professional reveiwers, or by members/ of hifi/audiophile themed forums like this one (SHF) or Audiokarma, Audiogon, 6Moons, etc..... to get the biased and unbiased reporting on equipment that they might be considering in their endeavor to move up the audiophile ladder. This was my case and initially i had narrowed my initial search sown to about 5-8 integrated amplifiers that caught my interest. I wasnt even lokking for tube based equipment as i thought it was too expensive and for the same money i could get a SS piece that would out perform anyvtube gear at similar price points. I then went to work on these 5-8 amps and started reading and watching as many reveiws and vidsos as i could on each one. I ultimately took more interest in the user/owner reveiws as i beleive the BS levlel is much lower.

    I was pretty convinced that i was going to pull the trigger on a Parasound Halo integrated amp for roughly $2500... this was roughly september of 2017. I had talked with my neighbor who is into higher end gear and he thought the Parasound was a safe bet so i was ready. I started checking all the hifi sites trying to see what the price differences were for a few days and i was ready to choose Audio Advisor as my store but something happened in those couple of days.... i was thinking about buyer remorse and trying to come up with a good reason why the parasound might bore me after the initial purchase.... and somehow i got back on the tube envy kick.... i started looking at used conrad johnsons and scotts etc.... and out of the blue i heard of this amp called the Cronus Magnum by a company i had never heard of before and the name itself was enough to stop and take a closer look....... so for a couple of weeks i read as much as i could... i asked questions, learned the pros and cons of tube equipment over SS and finally i brought over the reveiw and spec page to my neighbor to get his opinion. He is more of the digital/ computer audiophile type, all expensive quality gear. He wasn't an expert on tubes but something in his system was tube so he knew he liked the sound. He seemed to think the specs sounded top notch and then i was ready to buy a new Cronus Magnum 2 when i saw an ad from a guy on Audiogon selling his 3 month old Cronus Mag 2 for less than 2k. He had decided to go with Rogues smaller mono-blocks and figured he could get more selling it than in a trade in. So i bought it.... when i got it i was amazed. Eventually i dug out my 500 or so cds that i had boxed up when i reverted back to vinyl because the tubey aspect of the CM2 tamed down the hard edge of the cds that i had grown so tired of....

    After about 3 months of enjoying the hell out of the Cronus, i befreinded a member on this forum and to this day we message each other several times a week. He was a C111111ronus Mag 2 owner as well and after a month or so of talking, he was kind enough to send me a sampler package of different preamp tubes to try in the CM2... a mullard, telefunken, and a bugle boy.....i played around with them and was delighted to be able to change my sound signature without some fancy DSP preset, just by rolling one tube.

    So i have a genalex gold lion in there now. I have also tried a new production telefunken "black diamond" made by JJ actually. I have found a few of them to not meet my liking but a few do and every few months i might switch them out for a change. I still put the stock JJ in occassionally as i like how it sounds. Im not a JJ fan by any means but i can say that i dont hate them. I personally think the JJ's are a perfect stock tube for a peice of gear that is going to see a lot of owners experimenting with. Also, im not sure but i think Rogue offers upgraded tube packages at an extra cost. I know the tube depot and maybe upscale audio also sell upgrade tube packages for different amps on the market for those that dont know enough about tube choosing but will trust these stores to make good choices based on customer feedback.

    I think Rogue is smart to use a middle of the shelf, low cost tube as it allows them to invest more into the beast itself and not peripherals.... i'd rather have the choice to choose the tubes i roll. Its pretty easy too considering the cost of the JJ's.... if money ever becomes tight you can always put a JJ or 5 into the CM2 and it will sound good and wont break the budget....... well thats all i have.... my thumb is getting numb.... i just ordered a Rogue Spinx 2 for my secondary system. It has 2 JJ's in the preamp section. Im sure it will sound great... but you know ill be rolling after a month or so.... its a part of the hobby that makes it remain exciting i feel....
     
    BayouTiger likes this.
  18. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Tubes are lots of fun for sure! Some people like the JJs , @KT88 (Bill) says they take a long time to burn in and sound their best- I'm not that patient I guess!
    Still living and loving the Amperex 12AU7 in the center, two RCA 5961 in the back row and two Amperex Bugle Boy Holland long plate D-getter 12AX7 in the front row.
    Peace.
     
    theron d and gakerty like this.
  19. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    McIntosh uses JJ tubes.
    They sound great on Mac stuff but indeed they take about six to seven months to sound their best.
     
  20. honestabe316

    honestabe316 Analog Rebel

    I havent go ne to the other 4 besides the preamp tube yet.... did you find they made a positive noticeable difference too?
     
  21. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    yikes!
     
    SandAndGlass and 5-String like this.
  22. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    without question all positions matter and are easy to tell the differences in. The Amperex 12AX7s sound so amaxing- they give the sound a floaty 3D imaging. The RCA 12AU7 / 5963 give the sound punch and dynamics while the amperex 12AU7 in the middle give it a transparency that I did not get from any other tube. I have tried many tubes and combinations over the years and this setup sound the best.
     
    theron d likes this.
  23. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    Yeah, I got the McIntosh C2600 last Christmas and it sounded good after the first couple of days but the sound was slightly improving for months and both preamp and tubes reached their full potential in about six months. I use the preamp an hour or two per day on the average so I would say that it takes between 300-400 hours.
    Of course, a lot of people think break in is utter unscientific stupidity, but I know what I heard.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine