Rogue Sphinx v2 vs. Peachtree 2.0 Nova 150

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by JHughesPSPB, Mar 11, 2017.

  1. Vinyl Fan 1973

    Vinyl Fan 1973 "They're like soup, they're like....nothing bad"

    Great points. Your point actually reminds me of why the Rogue seems to be the right fit for me. I don’t stream and all the music I play comes from my Oppo, Marantz CD player and my turntable. The Rogue doesn’t have a dac and I don’t really need it to have one. It’s got enough line inputs to support an external phono Stage, which I will buy, and an external dac.

    I also want more power than what my current Marantz PM6005 is giving me. I think at this point I’ll probably get the Rogue or the Marantz PM8005, as I really like the house sound of Marantz, and they pair very well with Focal.
     
  2. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    I've got a power conditioner, so I've not heard any electrical noise.

    The factory supplied JJ tubes can easily be bettered. I landed on Gold Lion 12AU7s in mine and am quite happy with them.

    The headphone amp isn't the quietest I've ever heard, but it sounds good.

    The phono stage can be bettered easily with a good outboard unit. The Sphinx is MM only- Rogue was a bit misleading in their description.
     
    displayname and Vinyl Fan 1973 like this.
  3. head_unit

    head_unit Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    Then I think you are somewhat barking up the wrong trees.

    Your current Marantz is 45 watts, the 8005 is only 70. The Sphinx is 100. Now, there is more to "powerful" than just those raw specs, but hearing is logarithmic so even doubling the power like from your 6005 to the Sphinx is only 3 decibels more-just a small increment of the volume knob.

    I think to really feel any difference, you need to get to a beefy 150 or even 200 watt unit, really meaning an outboard amp. Or, if you haven't already, adding a subwoofer plus a highpass crossover (which would take the low bass load off your main amp and speakers).

    Why do you feel you need a bigger amp? And which Focals are you driving?
     
  4. Vinyl Fan 1973

    Vinyl Fan 1973 "They're like soup, they're like....nothing bad"

    I’m not sure really, I just figured I didn’t pay enough for the PM6005, it’s watts are low and I thought if I wanted better sound I should probably spend in the neighbourhood of $2000 which is my budget at the moment.

    I’m not happy with the current phono stage and I hear the limitations of the amp when volume is increased. Also when looking at integrated amps in my budget, most don’t go up to 150 or 200 Watts. I’m shocked that the Marantz line or even Rega offer below 100 or around 125. Peachtree Nova 150 offers 150 Watts but I’m no sure I’d like that amp.

    I’m driving Focal Chorus 816’s and they can go to 200 Watts, so would going over damage them?
     
  5. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    You are far more likely to damage a speaker by underpowering it than by having "too much" power.
     
    Vinyl Fan 1973 likes this.
  6. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Absolutely not. I have a class D aftermarket system in my car and I often wish my home system would have some of that clarity. Your Focals are smooth speakers and will probably benefit from an injection of class D transparency.
    Just be patient in your demo, if the amp has been powered off for several days it could take several minutes before it sounds its best.
     
    Vinyl Fan 1973 likes this.
  7. JHughesPSPB

    JHughesPSPB Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    State College, PA
    Can anyone tell me if the tubes in the Sphinx are part of the preamp section or the amplifier section? Every since I got my Sphinx I've not been satisfied with the bass output. I was thinking of trying other tubes but am curious about how they affect the output. If I were to (just as an experiment) take the preamp output of the Sphinx would I still be utilizing the tubes or are the only part of the amp stage?
     
  8. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    The tubes are part of a mu follower design in the preamp section. They will have a significant impact on the sound. Without spending crazy NOS $ I would recommend the current production Tung Sol 12Au7 if your goal is to boost bass response.
     
    Vinyl Fan 1973 and JHughesPSPB like this.
  9. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    And having vintage Mullards previous to the Gold Lions, I'd agree.
     
  10. head_unit

    head_unit Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    I'm actually a loudspeaker design engineer, and what I always say about that is
    - If you turn the volume down when thing start to sound bad, you should never blow anything up
    - If you crank things to "11" even when the sound is distorted, you'll probably damage something
    The amp power doesn't really matter, and speaker power ratings are pretty much not useful. I wouldn't hesitate to connect even like a 400 watt per channel amp to those lovely babies; I'm quite sure they could handle it for peaks.

    Unfortunately your 6005 has no preouts so you cannot use it as a preamp. I would not get another receiver if I were you, not even an integrated no matter what brand. I don't feel you will get the improvement you are looking for. I think you need a preamp and power amp of like 150+W/channel to really feel satisfied.* If you decide to do this I highly recommend starting a different thread so it is not polluted by the comments from this one.

    One big budgetary note: electronics don't wear out quickly, so recent model used equipment can be a great way to save: Audiogon, eBay, even Craigslist sometimes. Audiogon has a Parasound A23 Stereo Power Amplifier $681.00, 125 super beefy watts. Actually there is a Marantz MM-7055 listed TONIGHT ha ha, 140x5 channels, should be quite beefy if you're running into only 2 channels. There's other stuff as well. I don't see anything by you on Craigslist. Happy New Year, time to go out!

    (*yes, seems like I'm contradicting myself a bit, but it's hard to find 200+ watt amps, and something with 3x the power of your current Marantz but with much "beefier" power i.e. it can actually deliver the power into real world dynamic speaker impedances, not just test resistors)
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
    Vinyl Fan 1973 likes this.
  11. Vinyl Fan 1973

    Vinyl Fan 1973 "They're like soup, they're like....nothing bad"

    Thank you, I appreciate your feedback and help. Happy New Year.

    I’m going to have to do more research and perhaps put off buying anything for the time being. I’m a bit over my head because I’m not the most knowledgeable about specs and electronics. I know nothing about preamps and power amps and don’t even know why I would need both? I like how the integrated amp can be a streamlined one box solution to a guy like me. Easy and no nonsense.

    I guess I thought I could simply upgrade to another integrated with more Watts, and get better sound from my speakers. LOL shows how little I know.

    Actually there is lots of literature about this subject....lots of reading to do. I’ll start here:

    Integrated vs. separates
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  12. Ken Clark

    Ken Clark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago Suburbs
    If you're buying new you'll be getting the Sphinx V2, or or second version. I have a V1 and think it sounds really good and has great synergy with my Salk speakers. The V2 has a better phone stage and stronger headphone amp, and supposedly a quieter noise floor. I've thought about upgrading but, a) I rarely if ever use headphones, b) I have a Ray Samuels F-117 phono stage already that I use and c) though the amp is on the noisy side when I have my ear to the speaker, I never notice it when I'm listening to music, even quieter passages. The amp itself is a joy to use because although it does not have a host of features it has a wonderful solid feel when you push the power button and turn the selector and volume knobs. It looks purposeful, and it is. I did not want a built in DAC since the tech on DAC's seems to move forward rapidly and I already had one anyway (Arcam irDAC). For me, this will be my amp until I can afford to upgrade to Rogue's top of the line Pharaoh integrated.

    Regarding swapping out the tubes many have reported good results but that's also system dependent. I tried some expensive Mullards and ended up selling them off as the stock tubes in my system actually gave a more balanced sound.
     
    HiFi Guy and Vinyl Fan 1973 like this.
  13. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    When I lived in Durham North Carolina, Lots of audio shops with Cary audio,( Cary North Carolina) One of the best systems I heard had a Cary tube amp/ tube preamp with a pair of Dali Helicon 400 MK.2 speakers ($6500)....It was breath taking! As you know, with audio, especially speaker/amp, one has to do system matching for the synergy...once you have that, you are on your way to bliss!
     
  14. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    Its very much possible to tune SS amps with different interconnects as well.
     
  15. Vinyl Fan 1973

    Vinyl Fan 1973 "They're like soup, they're like....nothing bad"

    Thanks for the feedback. Nice to get your impressions of the Rogue v.1, I’m looking forward to hearing the v.2 this week. I just like everything I’ve read about it. I also agree that going forward I won’t look for a dac in the amp, I realize now it’s not needed. The technology is changing fast and when necessary I can always get an external dac.

    I’ve also done a lot of reading on the Hegel H80 and I’ll be hearing that as well.
     
  16. Tim Irvine

    Tim Irvine Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    Another happy Rogue V2 owner here. Mine is paired with Tekton Pendragons, which it handles with ease. When I was demoing things for my stereo I heard the V2 with Maggie 1.7s. The in store set up was less than optimal for the Maggies but other than being a little light on deep bass the pairing seemed to work well.
     
  17. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    This is one of the common problems that we have in audio.....not enough bass or just not dynamic enough. We look other places for the solution... One of the best and easiest solution to this sort of problem is to change out the power cord. The best power cord should always be on the preamp.....but in your case you have a integrated amp.....which has everything in the one box. You would do good to learn about power cords. Your preamp section has a lot of responsibility in the way the music sounds...and you want that music to be dynamic as possible and well balanced so you can hear your music at its best, So you should invest into a good power cord that's known for dynamics......you will be surprised at how much your amp has been sleeping....and you will know it has been sleeping once you get a great dynamic power cord . I have found that a 10 AWG pc is a great place to start with preamps. You will have much better bass..as well as everything else. If you don't know your power cords, Call over to "the Cable Company" and tell the techs there your issues and they will make recommendations for you and even send you a few PC's to try.
     
    Shiver, HiFi Guy and Vinyl Fan 1973 like this.
  18. head_unit

    head_unit Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    Actually you are correct, you (and 99.99% of the public) simply did not understand that watts are logarithmic, not linear. There ARE a few beefy integrateds with good phono sections:

    Parasound Halo 160 Watt Stereo Integrated Power Amplifier-Audio Advisor
    which is over your budget, but you might find it elsewhere, or a demo/damaged box unit, or lightly used. Famous designer John Curl did the beefy amp section, oughta make your Focals sing. (Dang, I want to hear those, this thread has gotten me curious, but you're a bit far for me to drop by for a spot of listening :p)

    Cambridge Audio Azur 851A (Silver)
    My buddy really really liked this when he listened to it-unfortunately I got a call from my wife right at that time. Not quite the power of the Parasound but I believe you would feel it a solid upgrade from your current amp. After an initial bad sample, Stereophile seemed to like it as well
    Cambridge Azur 851A integrated amplifier

    Back to the Sphinx, with just a bit over twice the power, not sure it would feel like a big upgrade...though that could be said of the Cambridge as well. The Sphinx IS nicely minimalist, and efficient due to Class D operation. With any of these amps, try 'em! But be sure there is a liberal return policy in case you don't feel much improvement. Good luck and Happy New [Amp] Year! :nauga:
     
    Vinyl Fan 1973 likes this.
  19. Shiver

    Shiver Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I don't think the Cambridge has an integrated phono section. But yep, good beefy amp though!
     
  20. Vinyl Fan 1973

    Vinyl Fan 1973 "They're like soup, they're like....nothing bad"

    Happy New Year! You have to hear the Focals, I fell in love with em the moment I auditioned them.

    I reviewed all those amps, and really liked the Parasound and the Cambridge, but after extensive reading decided against them. When some users started describing the long term Parasound signature sound, I thought that really isn’t for me.

    Now the Cambridge really tweaked my interest, and I liked what various users said about the sound and performance. I started getting turned off when multiple people started complaining about the manufacturing defects inherent in the Cambridge. That just upsets me because at the price they are charging for these units, volume shouldn’t be increasing by itself. I feel they lack good quality control and for that I won’t touch it.

    That’s when a gentleman reached out to me on another forum and told me all my questions would be answered with the Musical Fidelity M5si. I didn’t know anything about this amp but when I started reading the specs, and the reviews and write ups I could find, I started getting intrigued. Why was this amp not on my radar? The quality is first rate, the amp gives out 150 Watts and has two independent monoblocs with a separate preamp, but all mounted on one pcb. Yet it’s over my budget by at least $1000 in Canada. That’s when I found a new but opened in box for just a few hundred more than what I would have had to pay for the Rogue. I feel like the Musical Fidelity was made for me and my listening habits. I’m told it will pair very nicely with my Focals.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
    HiFi Guy likes this.
  21. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Yeah, I was going to caution against the Cambridge Audio. I had one of their phono stages (purchased new) years ago and one day, it didn't work. I opened it up and it was full of the cheapest parts known to man. The power supply caps had all leaked onto the board. Never again. I looked online and Cambridge Audio isn't known for reliability.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
    Vinyl Fan 1973 likes this.
  22. Vinyl Fan 1973

    Vinyl Fan 1973 "They're like soup, they're like....nothing bad"

    Yes it’s unfortunate as it seems to be a nice sounding amp. I’m a long term guy and gear needs to last right along with me. That’s why I love Marantz, they have great price points, excellent value for the money, and they are built solidly. Even the stuff that’s not built in their reference factory in Japan. Now that’s quality control. That’s why I really wanted the PM8005, but I think the Musical Fidelity will give me more change and upgrade, and frankly, better sound.
     
    HiFi Guy likes this.
  23. head_unit

    head_unit Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    Ah, that's the one I was trying to think of...actually a predecessor amp. B-stock or demo, or used, or quite possibly a previous model used would make you quite happy. Heck, makes me think about getting one...I'm meeting with my buddy to listen to speakers tomorrow, I've gotta tell him about it.
     
    Vinyl Fan 1973 likes this.
  24. Vinyl Fan 1973

    Vinyl Fan 1973 "They're like soup, they're like....nothing bad"

    I took your advice and started another thread here

    Anyone own Musical Fidelity M5si Amp?

    I purchased one new but box was opened, and saved a lot of money. It’s on the FedEx truck for delivery today, can’t wait. Everything I’ve read about the M5si, sound, build quality has been fantastic. I’d be shocked if I didn’t like it. Also, I found a forum for Focal owners and this amp was a fave for driving them. I’ve waited years for this upgrade, can’t wait.

    Let me know how the listening sessions go, and which speakers you heard.
     
    head_unit and tiger roach like this.

Share This Page