Roland's favorite CD versions of Black Sabbath albums (part2)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MilesSmiles, Sep 16, 2011.

  1. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    I think I would need to see some evidence to be sure the CS debut CD was really being sold before the WB. Also, like you said, we don't know how many different CS debut masterings are out there. I think all I can conclude at this point is that CS CDs are a mess, made with little to no care.
     
    blacksabbathrainbow likes this.
  2. Thanks, very helpful. Damn, those WB guys must have had serious troubles hearing high frequencies. Unbelievable. Thinking about it, I guess I am lucky in this respect that I am living in Europe - I mean, has there ever been a decent-sounding domestic US CD release of the s/t? The original WB feels like an assault on my eardrums, the CS releases I have heard are also much too bright when played without being de-emphasised (and without manipulation no player will de-emphasise them because they don't have the PE tag), and then there's... nothing, apparently, for a long time, until the Black Box that has everything compressed to death, and the 2012 remaster that is still much too bright. In Europe, there was at least the 1986 Castle and the 2009 Sanctuary.
     
  3. Most of the earliest CS releases are listed 1987 on Discogs, and I have always been wondering why, because to my knowledge most of those CDs don't give any information regarding their release date. I guess some people simply took notes when they first saw those CDs being offered...
     
  4. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    That's what I'm wondering as well. Where the '87 date comes from. I've seen mistakes on discogs before so I don't want to assume the '87 date is right without some indication as to where that came from. And if it is true that CS was offering Sabbath CDs in '87, I'd be interested to know how to tell which pressing(s) are the actual '87 discs and what mastering is contained on them.
     
  5. Tim1954

    Tim1954 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    '87 date makes sense.

    First US Creative Sounds CD release of the s/t was pressed at Digiprep (probably at their French plant) who began glass mastering in 1985. I doubt by 1988 CS would have been pressing US releases out of the US. It might have come out earlier than '87 but I doubt later. I personally bet that '87 date is spot on. And afaik, Discogs will run you out of town if you can't back up something like that with hard data. :laugh:

    Pilz was also pressing some of CS's stuff in Germany and I would doubt these didn't start by '87. I've even seen CS discs which carry Castle (Nems) cat. #s in their matrices.

    CS also had a weird thing where they used double CD cases (standard not fatbox) for some of their Sabbath releases. Very strange to see a single CD in a double CD case but I've seen a number of them that way and I'm pretty sure I recall reading some of them came out like that. Maybe they got an incredible buy on some double CD cases? :D
     
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  6. I fully agree the CS releases are a mess, even though some of them sound relatively good.

    I am pretty sure that there are CS releases (at least one) where the -2 is identical to the non-2, and others where they are different. But it's been a while, and I don't remember which was which. Generally I haven't been able to find a pattern among the CS, e.g. for the -2 vs. non-2, red vs. black printing, USA vs. Germany. The CS thread The Ultimate Black Sabbath Creative Sounds Compact Disc Thread is helpful in listing different CS releases with their peak values, and I don't see a pattern there either. But your and Roland's posts combined do seem to suggest that at least some CS either use PE but are missing the tag (Roland's version) or are copied from PE'ed releases without actually using PE technology themselves (your version). In the end, both versions lead to the same result: A very bright CS that has no PE tag, but sounds better when de-emphasised.

    Given that the SACD is better anyway, and the 2012 remaster gives us a better Wicked World, and the Creative Sounds releases of the s/t don't include Evil Woman, I guess there is no need to dig deeper into this. Let's better focus on finding a good mastering of Evil Woman with no tape damage, and on comparing different releases of Sabotage. Lots of work to do!;)
     
    Brenald79 likes this.
  7. LOL, I think there's more and more reason to believe that CS were just the product of a global conspiracy aimed at keeping collectors busy for decades. Now CS is long gone, but it still works.:D

    EDIT:
    I just noted I listed both the Vertigo and WB as "1987", not sure why. It's been a while that I have looked at the discs, but Discogs has both listed as 1988.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  8. By the way, I think someone mentioned recently that Discogs is not moderated anymore, so errors often don't get corrected anymore. Anyway, that doesn't apply to the CS, because those 1987 listings have been there for years.
     
  9. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I was wondering if you have done any more tests with these two versions of H&H?
     
  10. I am curious about this too. Anyway, first of all, I am puzzled because I don't think there ever was a US pressing of the 2009 Sanctuary redbook CD? I think it was a Europe-only release.
    Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath
    Please correct me if I am wrong.
    And what SHM-CD is this about? I am aware of a 2009 2-disc SHM release with cat# UICY-94180/1 and a 2010 1-disc with cat#UICY-20038:
    Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath
    Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath
    (It is of course quite possible that both have the same mastering for disc 1.)
     
  11. Tim1954

    Tim1954 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    These are both the 09 Pearce remastering.

    In 2009, UJPN reissued the whole catalog yet again, but only the first three were taken from the Deluxe Edition versions because those were the only ones that had been completed and released in the UK. The rest in 2009 by UJPN used the same old Castle remasters by Ray Staff originally from '96, but with further tweaking (loud, compressed).
     
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  12. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I don't think that 1-disc listing is a Pearce mastering. It's just some random SHM CD.

    As far as Heaven and Hell goes, this is the Japanese SHM and the second is the UK one.

    BLACK SABBATH Heaven And Hell JAPAN CD UICY-94472 2010 OBI | eBay

    BLACK SABBATH - HEAVEN AND HELL - 2 CD - DELUXE COLLECTOR'S EDITION - SEALED NEW | eBay
     
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  13. Thanks to you both. LOL, sorry for the confusion, I did two researches at the same time, one about Heaven and Hell and one about the s/t, and for some reason got confused and posted discogs links for the s/t rather than H&H.

    So it seems these are the SHM-CDs of H&H - the first one using the 2009 mastering, the second one saying "(c)2004 Sanctuary Records Group Ltd.", so that must be something older:
    UICY-94472/3 (2-disc) Black Sabbath - Heaven And Hell
    UICY-25126 (1-disc) Black Sabbath - Heaven And Hell

    Anyway, motionoftheocean had mentioned a "US CD pressing of the deluxe", but there wasn't such a thing, was there?
     
  14. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I guess he meant the UK released in the US. :)
     
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  15. I just compared disc 1 of the following 2 releases via the Exact Audio Copy WAV Compare function:
    Heaven And Hell (2010 Germany for UK 2CD 2735073 Sanctuary)
    Heaven And Hell (2010 Japan SHM-2CD UICY-94472/3 Sanctuary)
    and they are 100% digitally identical in every single sample.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
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  16. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Good deal! So if anyone hears any differences it would have to be due to the pressing or SHM material. Take that as you will. :)

    That Japanese mini-LP is a nice little set for collectability, though.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
    blacksabbathrainbow likes this.
  17. ...or due to their expecting a difference.;) Which is a totally common phenomenon of course.
     
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  18. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    The WG is now my preferred version for Mob Rules, as well.
     
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  19. I like the US Warner Bros. a bit better, but I am sure you know that already. It's all a matter of taste anyhow.

    I used to like Gert van Hoyen masterings, but they are sometimes a bit goosed up.
     
  20. jasonsouza77

    jasonsouza77 Vinyl Enthusiast

    Location:
    Portland
    hi everyone. just really curious about something. on the nems release greatest hits lp, noticed that the time stamp for war pigs is 8:49. is there an error or is it an extended mix? iirc, the one that appears on the paranoid lp is 7 plus minutes. thanks :)
     
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  21. John Bliss

    John Bliss Forum Resident

    Is it possibly the quad version in stereo? The non sped-up ending?
     
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  22. jasonsouza77

    jasonsouza77 Vinyl Enthusiast

    Location:
    Portland
    hmmm non sped up ending.. I have a digicopy of the album will take a listen now.. thanks :)
     
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  23. jasonsouza77

    jasonsouza77 Vinyl Enthusiast

    Location:
    Portland
    ok just listened. it also has the sped up ending at the end. will time it one of these days.. but sounds like an extended guitar solo but I could be wrong
     
  24. Please keep us posted. I just checked several versions of the song, even early copies with the Walpurgis lyrics run about 8:05 max. But an extended guitar solo would really be a surprising find.
     
    John Bliss likes this.
  25. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I'd also like to know if anybody can verify that these two are exactly the same.
     

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